Madeleine McCann

[Sunny Delight]

I'm on the fence as to whether the McCann's are responsible for their daughters death. I swing back and forth. I do tend to disagree more with those who are adamant of their innocence. When there is currently no perp I can't see how people can be so utterly convinced of the parent's innocence.

Because the theory behind it is utterly ridiculous. It should not even be given the time of day its so bonkers. My post above I think covers it. There are some people convinced of their guilt, usually the same people who are anti-vax or believe Trump really won. Some people you just can't reach with sensible conclusions.

[Sunny Delight]

Any statement made by the UK or Portuguese authorities has to be read with an understanding of the political implications of the case. The UK newspapers were very quick, even in these pre-Brexit times, to smear the Portuguese police as a bunch of Inspector Clouseaus out of their depth. The Portuguese authorities were very unhappy that their country was being viewed as an unsafe place to holiday in with children. Added to that was the direct involvement of recently appointed PM Gordon Brown who publicly expressed sympathy with the McCann family. (Brown had a public persona as a dour Scot and was keen to show his human face.)

Sunny Delight talks of a tragic accident as a ‘crackpot theory,’ despite the fact the main investigator reached this conclusion. The evidence to substantiate it relates to cadaver dogs reacting inside the apartment, as well as within the boot of a hired car, but that is not sufficient to bring charges obviously. However it’s more than a scintilla when taken in conjunction with the McCanns’ reported statements, and in the case of Kate McCann, non statement to the PJ.

Any other theory suffers from even less evidence than this. The idea that the McCanns left their apartment unlocked is fanciful, just as fanciful as their initial claim that an intruder came through a bedroom window. The PJ were able to establish that the latter was simply not possible. Buckled shutters and flapping window curtains therefore pointed to a staged construction by some person to confuse the police. Why an intruder, one who left no DNA at the scene, would wish to remove a girl from the apartment is not clear. If he wished her harm he could have done so in the bedroom. And why, having taken her from the apartment, it was necessary to hide the child so successfully that no trace of her has ever been found, is baffling.

"Sunny Delight talks of a tragic accident as a ‘crackpot theory,’ despite the fact the main investigator reached this conclusion. The evidence to substantiate it relates to cadaver dogs reacting inside the apartment, as well as within the boot of a hired car, but that is not sufficient to bring charges obviously. However it’s more than a scintilla when taken in conjunction with the McCanns’ reported statements, and in the case of Kate McCann, non statement to the PJ."

No I don't talk of a tragic accident as a 'crackpot theory'. I talk of the questions I asked. None of which you have answered. The Casaver dogs reacted inside the apartment and within the boot of the hirer car. You do realise that dogs act as a prompt. Evidence is required to substantiate this as dogs can't talk. None was ever found. The car was hired 26 days after Madeleine McCann disappeared. In order to preserve her body before transporting it they would have had to get access to a fridge and put their daughters body in there for an extended period of time before retrieving it, transporting it and dumping it. That is what is crackpot. And the lead investigator had form in crackpot theories. He particularly seemed to be fixated on parents hiding the bodies of their dead children in refrigerators.

Joanna Cipriano was 8 years old and disappeared on the way home from the shops. This was 2004 and 11 miles from where Madeleine McCann later disappeared. Amarel was lead nvestigator. The Police settled on the theory that Joanna's daughter had witnessed her mother and uncle engage in incest and they had killed her to conceal this. Her body was cut up, placed in a fridge and then fed to the pigs. The only difference between the McCanns and the Ciprianos was no questions were asked if confessions were beaten out of the Ciprianos.

in regards DNA left at the scene the Police from the very beginning completely bungled their investigation. It took until 2014 for the man seen by Jane Tanner to be ruled out and eliminated and then it was by the MET. The scene of the crime had been contaminated by people coming in and out not too mention the sniffer dogs. Indeed 600 fibres were taken from the apartment the majority ended up being canine.

To my mind the most likely scenario is an intruder, possibly a thief who saw an opportunity and abducted Madeleine McCann. The MET during their investigatiom uncovered a number of robberies in the Ocean club in the weeks leading up to the disappearance. All had entered via the shutters and side window. Indeed in one case in the PJ files an elderly lady had disturbed a burglar in the act and thr same modus operandi had been used.

Have you ever heard of the murder of Aleisha McPhail in Scotland 2018?

On 2 July 2018, six-year-old Scottish girl Alesha Sarah MacPhail was abducted from her bed and murdered by 16-year-old Aaron Campbell. Alesha, from Airdrie, North Lanarkshire, was three days into a stay with her grandparents on the Isle of Bute when Campbell entered their unlocked home at approximately 02:00 am. The teenager had previously bought cannabis from Alesha's father Robert, who lived in the house, and initially went to steal the drug. Upon finding the child asleep, Campbell picked her up, carried her to an abandoned hotel, then raped and killed her by applying pressure to her face and neck. Alesha was reported missing at 06:23 gmt; her body was discovered by a member of the public at 08:54 gmt.

"All I thought about was killing her once I saw her."
Campbell lifted a drowsy MacPhail from her bed, left the house without anyone noticing, and walked with her along the ocean shore. The child awoke in his arms during this walk and asked who he was; Campbell replied that he knew her father and was taking her home.

I believe something similar happened to Madeleine McCann.

[jason_c]

I'm on the fence as to whether the McCann's are responsible for their daughters death. I swing back and forth. I do tend to disagree more with those who are adamant of their innocence. When there is currently no perp I can't see how people can be so utterly convinced of the parent's innocence.

[cobalt]

Any statement made by the UK or Portuguese authorities has to be read with an understanding of the political implications of the case. The UK newspapers were very quick, even in these pre-Brexit times, to smear the Portuguese police as a bunch of Inspector Clouseaus out of their depth. The Portuguese authorities were very unhappy that their country was being viewed as an unsafe place to holiday in with children. Added to that was the direct involvement of recently appointed PM Gordon Brown who publicly expressed sympathy with the McCann family. (Brown had a public persona as a dour Scot and was keen to show his human face.)

Sunny Delight talks of a tragic accident as a ‘crackpot theory,’ despite the fact the main investigator reached this conclusion. The evidence to substantiate it relates to cadaver dogs reacting inside the apartment, as well as within the boot of a hired car, but that is not sufficient to bring charges obviously. However it’s more than a scintilla when taken in conjunction with the McCanns’ reported statements, and in the case of Kate McCann, non statement to the PJ.

Any other theory suffers from even less evidence than this. The idea that the McCanns left their apartment unlocked is fanciful, just as fanciful as their initial claim that an intruder came through a bedroom window. The PJ were able to establish that the latter was simply not possible. Buckled shutters and flapping window curtains therefore pointed to a staged construction by some person to confuse the police. Why an intruder, one who left no DNA at the scene, would wish to remove a girl from the apartment is not clear. If he wished her harm he could have done so in the bedroom. And why, having taken her from the apartment, it was necessary to hide the child so successfully that no trace of her has ever been found, is baffling.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

and this of course assuming they werent the ones who killed her, which is still an open question.
at the very least they are guilty of abuse, neglect and child endangerment.

No police force - British, German or Portuguese - regards either or both of Madeleine's parents to be suspects.

The question which you say is still open has long been closed.

No-one is seriously accusing them of abusing Madeleine either.

The Portuguese authorities issued a statement that Madeleine's parents were not guilty of any wrongdoing.

[Pcdunn]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/22/europe/madeleine-mccann-new-search-intl/index.html

[Sunny Delight]

''Madeleine McCann to her mother on the morning before she disapeared: Mommy why didnt you come last night when we cried.

And what was the response? to go out again that night leaving her and her twin infant siblings alone and unattended to go get hammered with her friends and leaving the door unlocked. of a ground floor apartment with easy access to the road and a pool. in a foreign country''

We have no idea how accurate any of that is. There is some corroboration of the first claim- about the children crying- from a Mrs Fenn who lived in the same apartment block, although her version has been disputed.

We do not know if the apartment was locked or unlocked: the McCanns gave different accounts to family and to the police. We do not even know for sure that no one was with Madeleine McCann when she disappeared except from the account of the Tapas group.

Overall however, I agree. No parent would ever leave children as young as the McCanns were in an apartment block unless they knew the children would not awake. And as doctors they, along with their Tapas group, would have been able to do so. I think the PJ got it right: it was a tragic accident caused by parental selfishness.

Yeah I have seen this crackers theory advocated since Amarel came up with it. He has form for crackpot theories if Joanna Cipriano is anything to go by. So here Is the nub- if Madeleine McCann was the victim of an overdose clear up the following:

- Where was Madeleine's body kept in the initial hours? If she was dead by say 7pm what did Gerry and Kate do with her?

- Why then go public to the media the next day? The Police had told them explicitly no media. Surely keeping it all low key would have been in their interest?

- The dogs alerted to the McCanns car- a car that was rented 20 days after Madeleine's disappearance. The Police believe the McCanns must have kept her in a refrigerator in that time as otherwise the body would have been so badly decomposed. Do you think that is plausible? If so where was Madeleine's body stored?

Can you provide one scintilla of evidence for this theory that even makes sense?

[Sunny Delight]

closure for the mccans?!? tje only thing they deserve at the very least is a charge of child neglect and endangerment.

I am unsure how Portuguese law works but presumably if the Police had thought it possible they would have included this at the time the McCanns were made suspects or persons of interest. They didn't so as much as they probably should have been charged with that the ship has sailed.

At the end of the day I wouldn't dream of doing what all those parents did- not just the McCanns. In fact I wouldn't even put my child into a creche on holidays, for me a holiday is family time. If I had a 4 year old and two one year old twins I wouldn't even have went on holidays. Far too much hassle.

That all said I cannot begin to imagine the mental anguish of having your child disappear never to be found with the distinct possibility she waw taken by someone who meant her harm. No matter how much I dislike the McCanns they have paid a heavy price for their mistake. Their daughter paid the ultimate price. They have to live with that. At the end of the day that family went to Portugal as nobodies and came back at the centre of one of the greatest mysteries of all time. Your vitriol towards them is unhealthy 16 years later.

[Abby Normal]

''Madeleine McCann to her mother on the morning before she disapeared: Mommy why didnt you come last night when we cried.

And what was the response? to go out again that night leaving her and her twin infant siblings alone and unattended to go get hammered with her friends and leaving the door unlocked. of a ground floor apartment with easy access to the road and a pool. in a foreign country''

We have no idea how accurate any of that is. There is some corroboration of the first claim- about the children crying- from a Mrs Fenn who lived in the same apartment block, although her version has been disputed.

We do not know if the apartment was locked or unlocked: the McCanns gave different accounts to family and to the police. We do not even know for sure that no one was with Madeleine McCann when she disappeared except from the account of the Tapas group.

Overall however, I agree. No parent would ever leave children as young as the McCanns were in an apartment block unless they knew the children would not awake. And as doctors they, along with their Tapas group, would have been able to do so. I think the PJ got it right: it was a tragic accident caused by parental selfishness.

hi cobalt
thanks. what Maddy said to her mom, comes from Kate herself, its on video during an interview. The apartment was unlocked. they originally tried to save face and tell the police it was locked, but after further questioning they admitted they left it unlocked. And according to the mcanns and everyone else, the children were left alone.

"unless they knew the children would not awake". which raises the question, after maddy telling her mom why didnt you come, of course meaning she woke up when they were gone, did the mcanns dose them with sleeping pills to make sure they wouldnt? which of course not only would it facilitate an easier kidnapping of a (knocked out)child, but also endangering them to a reaction and or overdose.

tragic accident? what do you mean by that? said over dose of sleeping medication? if so, thats manslaughter, possibly murder, is it not?

[cobalt]

''Madeleine McCann to her mother on the morning before she disapeared: Mommy why didnt you come last night when we cried.

And what was the response? to go out again that night leaving her and her twin infant siblings alone and unattended to go get hammered with her friends and leaving the door unlocked. of a ground floor apartment with easy access to the road and a pool. in a foreign country''

We have no idea how accurate any of that is. There is some corroboration of the first claim- about the children crying- from a Mrs Fenn who lived in the same apartment block, although her version has been disputed.

We do not know if the apartment was locked or unlocked: the McCanns gave different accounts to family and to the police. We do not even know for sure that no one was with Madeleine McCann when she disappeared except from the account of the Tapas group.

Overall however, I agree. No parent would ever leave children as young as the McCanns were in an apartment block unless they knew the children would not awake. And as doctors they, along with their Tapas group, would have been able to do so. I think the PJ got it right: it was a tragic accident caused by parental selfishness.

[Abby Normal]

Madeleine McCann to her mother on the morning before she disapeared: Mommy why didnt you come last night when we cried.

And what was the response? to go out again that night leaving her and her twin infant siblings alone and unattended to go get hammered with her friends and leaving the door unlocked. of a ground floor apartment with easy access to the road and a pool. in a foreign country.

Wasnt she worried about her child being scared because she was left alone again?
or what could happen to tje twin infants left unattended?
or that Maddy might have woken up again alone at night and wandered outside looking for her parents and possibly falling in the pool or into the road or somewhere outside?
or that someone might kidnap them?

What heartless self centered person does that? oh yeah, ones that would rather go out every night and get pissed than make sure their children were safe.

and this of course assuming they werent the ones who killed her, which is still an open question.
at the very least they are guilty of abuse, neglect and child endangerment.

[DJA]

The Supremes - The Happening - YouTube

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

The last post must be one of the most bizarre ones I have ever read.

My way of seeing the world is so self centered and bizarre because I defended Madeleine McCann's parents and suggested that anger be directed at her abductor rather than at her parents!

The British, German, and Portuguese police all share my view.

Does that make them self-centered?

Does that make their view of the world bizarre?


'first of all her parents are the reason and at fault she is missing, so yes they deserve to be attacked.'

They do not deserve to be attacked any more than Madeleine deserved to be wrenched from them.


'many people, and for good reason, think her parents did it.'

The British, German and Portuguese police do not think Madeleine's parents did anything - except make a mistake.


'this is why people on here get sick of you... why dont you show a modicum of humanity...'

That is obviously a personal attack.


I am curious to know how many people on here actually share your views.

If you are right about them, they should be queuing up to throw muck at me on this very thread.

Somehow, I don't think that is going to happen.

[Abby Normal]

Attacking the child's parents is a strange way of showing sympathy for her.

If you want to show sympathy for her by attacking someone, I suggest that her abductor would make a more appropriate target.

this is why people on here get sick of you.and why i wont be responding to any more of your ad nauseum of posts. your way of seeing the world is so self centered and bizarre. you start every debate with a position that what you believe is stone cold fact.

first of all her parents are the reason and at fault she is missing, so yes they deserve to be attacked.
secondly its not a fact at all that she had an abductor, many people, and for good reason, think her parents did it.
Thirdly, why dont you show a modicum of humanity and show some sympathy for the poor child.

good riddance.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Attacking the child's parents is a strange way of showing sympathy for her.

If you want to show sympathy for her by attacking someone, I suggest that her abductor would make a more appropriate target.