Madeleine McCann

[rjpalmer]

Since when is a Police Chief falsifying documents "only" falsifying documents? If cops in Texas falsified document during the Kennedy Assassination inquiry be brushed aside so readily?

[rjpalmer]

hi cobalt
to add... three police officers in the cipriano case were acquitted and only amaral and another cop were convicted, only of falsifying documents. Amaral wasnt even there during the alleged beating of the mother.

Come on, Abbey, you can do better than this. The documents he was convicted of falsifying had to do with covering up the police brutality. So, of course the officers were acquitted. If Amaral didn't believe they beat a confession out of her, why did he falsify the documents? Nothing that someone states during torture/abuse can be trusted.

The PJ claimed she jumped (or fell) down a set of stairs while in police custody. If you and Cobalt believe that, I'm selling a bridge in Brookyln that you might be interested in.





The point is that this girl could have been alive & trafficked. But we'll never know for certain because the confessions were flawed and may well have been coerced, and they never looked. From what I read, the 'evidence' in the pigsty was worthless, but there is so much bogus information coming out of Portugal it's hard to know.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Please see my replies below.

Amaral has always denied the accusations laid against him, whereas the McCanns have openly admitted their child neglect.


Is that not to the McCanns' credit and Amaral's discredit?


Convictions without a body are very difficult to prosecute so perhaps Mr. Amaral deserves the benefit of the doubt.


Perhaps he should have waited until the body turned up before accusing the missing girl's parents.


He believes that Breuckner will follow Murat, Monteiro, Hewlitt, a bus driver at the Ocean Centre, a couple of paedophile window cleaners and Hans von Aesch into the dustbin of Madeleine McCann ‘prime suspects.’ I suspect he is right.


Can you name a monster of Brueckner's magnitude who was in the vicinity of the McCanns' apartment when Madeleine went missing?


Amaral has never attempted to stop the MCanns speaking out against him. In contrast, the McCanns have spent a great deal of money attempting to legally block his version of what he investigated.


Amaral defamed the McCanns.

The McCanns did not defame Amaral.


Amaral’s book .. In Portugal ... was a best seller.


Is that to the credit of the Portuguese public?

No doubt articles, books, and television programmes accusing the Chamberlains were popular in Australia.

So what?

[Abby Normal]

The tabloid phrase ‘Disgraced Detective’ is routine concerning Amaral, but nowhere have I ever read the phrase ‘Disgraced Parents’ in relation to the McCanns. This is worth noting since Amaral has always denied the accusations laid against him, whereas the McCanns have openly admitted their child neglect.

If Amaral had wrongly identified two sets of parents as guilty of their daughters’ deaths and been proved wrong, then he would indeed deserve the soubriquet ‘Disgraced Detective.’ But the Cipriano verdict, despite allegations of forced confessions, was never so far as I am aware overturned. Since no one has ever been convicted of the Madeleine McCann murder then the jury (which I understand PI does not like as an arbiter of justice) must remain out on his abilities. Convictions without a body are very difficult to prosecute so perhaps Mr. Amaral deserves the benefit of the doubt. He believes that Breuckner will follow Murat, Monteiro, Hewlitt, a bus driver at the Ocean Centre, a couple of paedophile window cleaners and Hans von Aesch into the dustbin of Madeleine McCann ‘prime suspects.’ I suspect he is right.

Amaral has never attempted to stop the MCanns speaking out against him. In contrast, the McCanns have spent a great deal of money attempting to legally block his version of what he investigated. They lost both cases, in Portugal and at the European Court. Amaral’s book is still not distributed within the UK, the one place the McCanns have received very high level political support. In Portugal it was a best seller.

hi cobalt
to add... three police officers in the cipriano case were acquitted and only amaral and another cop were convicted, only of falsifying documents. Amaral wasnt even there during the alleged beating of the mother. and yes she served her murder conviction.
Also, as you mentioned all the other suspects i cant see how people can cay the pj only focused on the mccans.
And as i mentioned before the portuguese court judges threw out the mccan case, who were suing him to try and block his book, ruling in his favor. oh btw kate also wrote a book about her disappearance.

[erobitha]

Do you not find it farfetched that doctors would sedate their own two- and three-years-old children?

I find it far-fetched that both parents leave three children completely unattended whilst they socialise with friends, but it still happened.

[cobalt]

The tabloid phrase ‘Disgraced Detective’ is routine concerning Amaral, but nowhere have I ever read the phrase ‘Disgraced Parents’ in relation to the McCanns. This is worth noting since Amaral has always denied the accusations laid against him, whereas the McCanns have openly admitted their child neglect.

If Amaral had wrongly identified two sets of parents as guilty of their daughters’ deaths and been proved wrong, then he would indeed deserve the soubriquet ‘Disgraced Detective.’ But the Cipriano verdict, despite allegations of forced confessions, was never so far as I am aware overturned. Since no one has ever been convicted of the Madeleine McCann murder then the jury (which I understand PI does not like as an arbiter of justice) must remain out on his abilities. Convictions without a body are very difficult to prosecute so perhaps Mr. Amaral deserves the benefit of the doubt. He believes that Breuckner will follow Murat, Monteiro, Hewlitt, a bus driver at the Ocean Centre, a couple of paedophile window cleaners and Hans von Aesch into the dustbin of Madeleine McCann ‘prime suspects.’ I suspect he is right.

Amaral has never attempted to stop the MCanns speaking out against him. In contrast, the McCanns have spent a great deal of money attempting to legally block his version of what he investigated. They lost both cases, in Portugal and at the European Court. Amaral’s book is still not distributed within the UK, the one place the McCanns have received very high level political support. In Portugal it was a best seller.

[Darryl Kenyon]

The trouble with the hair tests is that they were organised by the Mcann's themselves. The samples of hair were given to a forensic team hired by the McCann's lawyers for analysis. True the toxicology tests performed on the hair showed no traces of sedatives.
But how do we know if it was actually the twins hair fibre's that were handed over ? Any independent evidence of that ?
And when were the tests actually done ? As far as I can tell the results came back in October. Would any evidence of a sedative still be in the body weeks, if not months later ?
And you have to ask the question why the Mcann's did not offer to ask for independent tests on the twins to be carried out in the first place, instead of their own lawyers handing the supposed evidence over to a forensic team hired by them .

Regards Darryl

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Toxicology from hair samples I believe only certain chemicals show in such tests. Do even sedatives show on such tests? Also, scalp hair has the least concentration of toxicology of all hair type samples, which is the only type they would have provided and therefore may not have been enough concentration to even show up.

I’m no toxicology expert, these are just my thoughts.

Do you not find it farfetched that doctors would sedate their own two- and three-years-old children?

[erobitha]

The McCanns had scientific tests conducted on hair samples from their two remaining children and they showed no trace of sedatives.

Toxicology from hair samples I believe only certain chemicals show in such tests. Do even sedatives show on such tests? Also, scalp hair has the least concentration of toxicology of all hair type samples, which is the only type they would have provided and therefore may not have been enough concentration to even show up.

I’m no toxicology expert, these are just my thoughts.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

From my understanding, it’s unlikely Maddie woke up. The theory as I’ve been told, and again not confirmed, is that all of the McCann children had been given some kind of sedative. Even when the police were trapsing through the apartment in the middle of the night the twins slept soundly. Being Doctors this is obviously not a hard thing for them to facilitate. Hence, why Kate jumped to abduction because she knew it was highly unlikely Maddie just woke up.

No toxicology was taken of the twins that night, so we may well never know the truth. It would explain much of their evasive and erratic behaviour after the event.

From what I was told, Kate had a tough time with Maddie and was quite depressed and stressed. I guess the sedation was as much about giving Kate a respite as it was helping the children sleep. If true, I can see why they wouldn’t want the world knowing. Leaving the children on their own is bad enough, sedating them too, then they would undoubtedly become prime suspects.

I don’t know if any of the above is true but whatever happened, an innocent three year old girl lost her life in the most tragic of circumstances.

The McCanns had scientific tests conducted on hair samples from their two remaining children and they showed no trace of sedatives.

[erobitha]

If it is true that Madeleine said she was crying because her parents had left her and her siblings alone in the apartment, and that Madeleine made no attempt to find them, why would her mother have deduced that when she went missing, she had gone looking for her?

From my understanding, it’s unlikely Maddie woke up. The theory as I’ve been told, and again not confirmed, is that all of the McCann children had been given some kind of sedative. Even when the police were trapsing through the apartment in the middle of the night the twins slept soundly. Being Doctors this is obviously not a hard thing for them to facilitate. Hence, why Kate jumped to abduction because she knew it was highly unlikely Maddie just woke up.

No toxicology was taken of the twins that night, so we may well never know the truth. It would explain much of their evasive and erratic behaviour after the event.

From what I was told, Kate had a tough time with Maddie and was quite depressed and stressed. I guess the sedation was as much about giving Kate a respite as it was helping the children sleep. If true, I can see why they wouldn’t want the world knowing. Leaving the children on their own is bad enough, sedating them too, then they would undoubtedly become prime suspects.

I don’t know if any of the above is true but whatever happened, an innocent three year old girl lost her life in the most tragic of circumstances.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

If it is true that Madeleine said she was crying because her parents had left her and her siblings alone in the apartment, and that Madeleine made no attempt to find them, why would her mother have deduced that when she went missing, she had gone looking for her?

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby,

This is the one aspect that really does bother me. As a Mum myself, I very much enjoyed having my daughter with me all the time, day and night, whenever we went on holiday at home or abroad. She wasn't interested in joining the Kids' Clubs, preferring to spend most of her time with us in the swimming pool, or on the beach and in the sea. In the evenings, from an early age, she would come with us to child-friendly bars and restaurants and loved choosing her meal from the menu. It was also a great way of tiring her out naturally so she would sleep soundly through the night and wake refreshed for another fun day.

My first reaction, if I had ever found myself in Kate's awful situation, would have been to assume - and hope - that my daughter had woken up alone and disorientated, and had left her room to go and look for me. The last thing I could have allowed myself to think would be that she was gone for good, snatched by someone with evil in mind. When I was about four, my own Mum was meant to pick me up from a church hall party, but as the other children gradually left with their mothers, I decided to start walking home on my own, and none of the adults noticed me leaving. Luckily, nothing bad happened and a woman who passed me in her car delivered me safely back to Mum, who was running towards us, her face as white as a sheet! That incident taught me and my Mum lessons we never forgot.

Love,

Caz
X

Bingo caz. When my kids were little we did everything together on vacation including dinner.I wouldn’t think of leaving them alone because I liked being with them more than doing anything else and I would worry if I left them anywhere without me or my wife, especially in a foreign country! There’s plenty of time before and after your kids are little to party without them for effs sake.

and yes again her behavior upon finding her gone is weird to me. Especially since just that morning Maddie had told her they had awoken and cried and asked why didn’t she come? After that, wouldn’t first thought be she awoke looking for them again and wandered outside??? Even more so that they left the doors unlocked??
And leave infant babies alone again ???

I would at least scooped the babies up and brought them with me. I just don’t get the behavior any of it regardless of if they had anything to to with it.

[caz]

And more odd behavior by the one of the mcanns. when kate discovered maddy missing she immediately ran back to the restuarant screaming Shes gone, theyve taken her! wtf?!?If it was me, my first reaction especially knowing i left doors unlocked is that she got up looking for me again and wandered outside, not that she had been abducted. and if she really thought she had beed kidnapped,shes really going to leave the twin babies alone again when said abductor could still be around?!? Once again no wonder they were suspects and never cleared.

Hi Abby,

This is the one aspect that really does bother me. As a Mum myself, I very much enjoyed having my daughter with me all the time, day and night, whenever we went on holiday at home or abroad. She wasn't interested in joining the Kids' Clubs, preferring to spend most of her time with us in the swimming pool, or on the beach and in the sea. In the evenings, from an early age, she would come with us to child-friendly bars and restaurants and loved choosing her meal from the menu. It was also a great way of tiring her out naturally so she would sleep soundly through the night and wake refreshed for another fun day.

My first reaction, if I had ever found myself in Kate's awful situation, would have been to assume - and hope - that my daughter had woken up alone and disorientated, and had left her room to go and look for me. The last thing I could have allowed myself to think would be that she was gone for good, snatched by someone with evil in mind. When I was about four, my own Mum was meant to pick me up from a church hall party, but as the other children gradually left with their mothers, I decided to start walking home on my own, and none of the adults noticed me leaving. Luckily, nothing bad happened and a woman who passed me in her car delivered me safely back to Mum, who was running towards us, her face as white as a sheet! That incident taught me and my Mum lessons we never forgot.

Love,

Caz
X

[rjpalmer]

I had not seen that documentary before.

Seems what I was told might not have been garbled nonsense after all.

Hi Jay. No one said your account was 'nonsense'- only that it sounded a lot like an earlier story about a discovery made at a different property Brueckner had lived at in Portugal, which it did. Your informant was describing a second location---not Brueckner's infamous "Yellow House" where there were also films/images, but a disused factory with a burial site of a dead dog. No harm done. Since you didn't say anything about a dead dog, I assumed it was a retelling of the old information. I hadn't seen this documentary, either. So yes, the information you heard was evidently true.

More importantly, I find it hard to believe that people are still putting any faith in the bulls$%t theories of the discredited Police Chief Goncalo Amaral--that the McCanns killed their own daughter and hid her in a refrigerator for 25 days. The rental car story never made any sense--how would an accidental death from a sedative lead to blood evidence?--and the DNA traces falsely touted by the PJ and leaked to the press turned out to have been worthless. Amarl's theory was so bereft of evidence that his book was pulled off the shelves in Portugal by court order and he was successfully sued, though the settlement was eventually overturned.

At the time of the McCann investigation, Amaral was found guilty of falsifying documents in a different abduction case involving another little girl, with his officers literally beating a confession out of the girl's mother--a confession which she immediately retracted. Who knows if she had any knowledge of the girl's disappearance. Amaral's bizarre theory was that the mother and her brother had killed the girl when she caught them in an incestuous act and then cut her up and stashed her inside a refrigerator. Sound familiar? The refrigerator in question was tiny and a journalist proved the girl could not have fit inside it. In reality, there is evidence the girl was trafficked. Two years later, Amaral "recycled" the refrigerator nonsense in the McCann case. This goes well beyond "incompetence." Amaral was wrong and narrow-minded and wasted time by focusing on the parents.

If Brueckner turns out to be guilty, which may well be the case, the people who promoted the infallibility of sniffer dogs will have a lot of explaining to do. When I first watched the tape of these dogs, I was impressed by the fact that they were dancing around wildly and seemed too eager to please their owner. They picked out two spots inside the rental apartment in Portugal, but no forensic evidence was linked to those two spots. Yet, based on the dog evidence, the McCanns were crucified in the press. I agree with the many commentators that suggested at the time that Amaral's theory was an effort to protect Portugal's lucrative tourist industry.