Madeleine McCann

[Sunny Delight]

Apart from the fact that the crime scene was messed up, if there was no sign of a break-in, it would hardly be the first time that has happened.

I know personally of a break-in and abduction which were known to have happened, yet the police could find no physical evidence of a break-in.

The police did not make the home-owners, who were the victims, into suspects.

None of the people who have accused the McCanns on the ground that there was no sign of a break-in would like to be accused if they were victims of a break-in of which no physical signs could be detected.

Criticising Kate McCann for leaving her two remaining children alone and becoming hysterical about Madeleine's disappearance really does smack of a holier-than-thou attitude.

Her reaction was normal.

The truth is that, from early on, she was accused of being a liar and even a murderer not because of evidence but because she was disliked.

The arguments in favour of her guilt were then contrived in order to damn her.

I recall one comment on a British Newspaper comments page in which the accuser called for Kate McCann to be prosecuted both for child neglect or abandonment and for having covered up the truth of how she died, manslaughter, or murder.

That woman did not care whether her proposed charges were compatible with one another, so long as McCann was indicted.

It was rampant misogyny on a grand scale.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Apart from the fact that the crime scene was messed up, if there was no sign of a break-in, it would hardly be the first time that has happened.

I know personally of a break-in and abduction which were known to have happened, yet the police could find no physical evidence of a break-in.

The police did not make the home-owners, who were the victims, into suspects.

None of the people who have accused the McCanns on the ground that there was no sign of a break-in would like to be accused if they were victims of a break-in of which no physical signs could be detected.

Criticising Kate McCann for leaving her two remaining children alone and becoming hysterical about Madeleine's disappearance really does smack of a holier-than-thou attitude.

Her reaction was normal.

The truth is that, from early on, she was accused of being a liar and even a murderer not because of evidence but because she was disliked.

The arguments in favour of her guilt were then contrived in order to damn her.

I recall one comment on a British Newspaper comments page in which the accuser called for Kate McCann to be prosecuted both for child neglect or abandonment and for having covered up the truth of how she died, manslaughter, or murder.

That woman did not care whether her proposed charges were compatible with one another, so long as McCann was indicted.

[Sunny Delight]

Yeah I can pretty much agree with this. Do we know how much the smith sighting man resembles the German suspect Bruckner?

There are some e-fits based on the Smiths sighting. I wouldn't suggest there is a great deal of likeness to Breuckner in how in looked at that time on photos I have seen. But the Smith's descriptions are below:

Martin Smith: Regarding the description of the individual who carried the child he states that: he was Caucasian, around 175 to 180m in height. He appeared to be about 35/40 years old. He had an average build, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour. He cannot state if it was dark or lighter in tone. He did not wear glasses and had no beard or moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details partly due to the fact that the lighting was not very good.

Aoife Smith: The individual was male, Caucasian, light-skinned, between 20/30 years of age, of normal physical build, around 1,70/1,75 metres in height. At the time she saw his face but now cannot remember it. She thinks that he had a clean-shaven face. She does not remember seeing tattoos, scars or earrings. She did not notice his ears. His hair was thick-ish, light brown in colour, short at the back (normal) and longer on top.

It should be noted that Aoife was only 12 years old so its a really incredible statement from one so young.

Peter Smith:

The description of the individual who carried the child was: Caucasian, around 175 to 180 cm tall. About 35 years, or older. He was somewhat tanned as a result of sun exposure. Average build, in good shape. Short hair, brown in colour. He does not remember if he wore glasses, or had a beard or a moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details as the lighting was bad.

[Abby Normal]

Yes the Smith family gave their statements 3 weeks after the event. However it is important to note that they were able to pinpoint and remember the night because one of them(the son I think) had an early flight the next day. Receipts from the bar they were in showed that indeed they had been there at 9:55pm. The fact is a lone male, so far untraced, was carrying a young blonde girl around 3-4 years of age, wearing pyjamas at about 10pm, 450 yards from the McCann apartment through the streets of Luz. It may not have been an abductor but to my mind it is the best lead we have.

Yeah I can pretty much agree with this. Do we know how much the smith sighting man resembles the German suspect Bruckner?

[Sunny Delight]

the smith sighting is possibly a genuine suspect/ maddy sighting but it came a month after she disapearred and sounds so close to the tanner sighting (which was proven not to be maddy) that it could be a confusion with that one. plus martin smith was pretty sure at first it was gerry and then later said it wasnt. This witness sighting leaves alot to be desired.

now that being said, there are some that cling to the smith sighting being an actual sighting of Gerry getting rid of Maddys body which is possible also I guess, but i doubt it. If they needed to ditch the body, they had suitcases to carry her in. I doubt, if guilty they would openly carry away her body.

now there is a theory that this is what happened... the mccans were involved and ditched the body before going to the restaurant by putting her in a suitcase and carrying her body out that way, perhaps burrying her in the suitcase in the sand at the beach. only later moving her body again once they rented the car, because they feared she would be discovered and realized that the suitcase could tie it all back to them. which is another scenario of why the dogs alerted to the boot of the car that was rented later.

again, full disclosure, I think the most likely scenario is that an outside intruder, probably an experienced burgler/pedophile abducted Maddie, and i wouldnt be surprised if it was this latest german suspect Bruckner. however, many people still beleive the mccans to be suspects, including the lead investigators and they were never legally cleared as ruled by the judges, and rightfully so.. they should still be viewed as possible suspects until the case is solved.

Yes the Smith family gave their statements 3 weeks after the event. However it is important to note that they were able to pinpoint and remember the night because one of them(the son I think) had an early flight the next day. Receipts from the bar they were in showed that indeed they had been there at 9:55pm. The fact is a lone male, so far untraced, was carrying a young blonde girl around 3-4 years of age, wearing pyjamas at about 10pm, 450 yards from the McCann apartment through the streets of Luz. It may not have been an abductor but to my mind it is the best lead we have.

[Abby Normal]

the smith sighting is possibly a genuine suspect/ maddy sighting but it came a month after she disapearred and sounds so close to the tanner sighting (which was proven not to be maddy) that it could be a confusion with that one. plus martin smith was pretty sure at first it was gerry and then later said it wasnt. This witness sighting leaves alot to be desired.

now that being said, there are some that cling to the smith sighting being an actual sighting of Gerry getting rid of Maddys body which is possible also I guess, but i doubt it. If they needed to ditch the body, they had suitcases to carry her in. I doubt, if guilty they would openly carry away her body.

now there is a theory that this is what happened... the mccans were involved and ditched the body before going to the restaurant by putting her in a suitcase and carrying her body out that way, perhaps burrying her in the suitcase in the sand at the beach. only later moving her body again once they rented the car, because they feared she would be discovered and realized that the suitcase could tie it all back to them. which is another scenario of why the dogs alerted to the boot of the car that was rented later.

again, full disclosure, I think the most likely scenario is that an outside intruder, probably an experienced burgler/pedophile abducted Maddie, and i wouldnt be surprised if it was this latest german suspect Bruckner. however, many people still beleive the mccans to be suspects, including the lead investigators and they were never legally cleared as ruled by the judges, and rightfully so.. they should still be viewed as possible suspects until the case is solved.

[Sunny Delight]

Refusing to accept the version of the McCanns about the disappearance of their daughter has nothing to do with any fetishes about Covid or any US presidential election. The case is not well past its sell by date since it remains unresolved.

The theory of a phantom abductor remains exactly that, in fact there is less evidence to support it than the theory that Madeleine McCann died in the apartment. Choose which ever adjective you prefer from the list offered on this site: preposterous or ridiculous.

A phantom abductor enters the McCann apartment by exceedingly good fortune since the door is unlocked (their second version of events.) No one sees him. He leaves no trace inside the apartment either, nor does he bother to steal anything, presumably his original motive. He removes the child from the apartment (sedated or unsedated would make little difference at this point) and again is not seen, despite the best efforts of Jane Tanner to claim she saw such an event. He then abducts the child to a place as yet unknown for a purpose as yet unknown. How he does this- on foot or by car- has never been established. As a theory it has not a single scrap of evidence to support it. The speculation monitor is off the radar on this theory.

In short the phantom abductor probably does not exist, any more than any other phantom does. Bruekner is merely the latest in a series of paedophiles connected to the area who has been linked to the crime.

Just because you dismiss evidence doesn't mean there is none. The window and shutters being open is a key bit of evidence yet you dismiss it. You claim the shutters could not be open from outside yet this is exactly how burglaries were being committed at the Ocean Club in the months prior to the McCanns stay. Jane Tanner's suspect has been eliminated as far as can be reasonably ascertained. This was a British man who in 2007 had told the Police his movements. It took until 2014 for him to be found.

For me the main suspect must be the man seen by the Smiths. Now of course the Smiths had not been suspicious of this man at the time. They had felt he had acted in a natural way. And seeing someone carrying a sleeping child on holidays at night is hardly unusual. However given what we know now and the fact that this man has never been traced he is certainly a person of real interest. Here we have a lone male carrying a blonde haired girl of 3-4 years of age about 400 yards from the McCanns apartment wearing pink pj's and sleeping on the man's shoulder. The time is not certain but it was around 10pm. She was not covered by a blanket nor did she have a jacket of any kind. No one could remember if she was wearing shoes and only Aoife thought she was wearing long sleeves. The others could not recall. The question one has to ask is- at 10pm on a Thursday night why would someone be carrying their young child in their pj's through Luz. Someone who has not been traced to any of the creche's that were being used that night.

Martin Smith later said he had an 80% certainty that the man was Gerry McCann. His reasoning had been his mannerisms on walking down stairs from the return flight to the UK had triggered something for him. None of the other families agreed with his assertion. It could not have been Gerry as he could be placed with others at that time despite what some may say. Smith later withdrew his assertion and the Police felt he had been mistaken. He later came to the same conclusion himself.

[Sunny Delight]

yeah ive always had a problem with phantom suspects too.

Kate said when she first arrived and saw Maddy was missing she noticed the bedroom window and outside blinds open. Gerry said he closed both before police arrived and that the blinds could be opened from the outside. After the police looked at the window, not only did they not find any sign of forced entry, or any kind of evidence of entry through the window at all, it was discovered that the heavy metal blinds locked in place when closed and could ONLY be opened and closed from the inside. Along with the mcanns initially telling the police they kept the doors locked but having to later admit they kept them open we now have a scenario according to the mcanns that an outside abductor somehow went through a window when it wasnt needed because both entrances were left unlocked but also window/blinds that couldnt be opened from tje outside and had no signs of entry, forced or otherwise. With all the changing of stories and discrepencies, no wonder they were made official suspects. suspecthood that by portugese law automatically goes away whenthey closed the unsolved case but infact they were never cleared, which was the last legal ruling made by the portugese Judges in the libel case where the mcanns tried to sue the lead investigator for writing a book which said the mcanns were involved, a case which the judges also threw out, ruling in favor of the lead investigator.

And more odd behavior by the one of the mcanns. when kate discovered maddy missing she immediately ran back to the restuarant screaming Shes gone, theyve taken her! wtf?!?If it was me, my first reaction especially knowing i left doors unlocked is that she got up looking for me again and wandered outside, not that she had been abducted. and if she really thought she had beed kidnapped,shes really going to leave the twin babies alone again when said abductor could still be around?!? Once again no wonder they were suspects and never cleared.

You do not know how you would react. Kate's reaction to me seems natural in that she was in a blind panic and did something irrational which was leave the babies alone. Panic will do that to you. Judging her on that is scrapping the barrel. As for the shutters this has been proven that they did open from outside. The MET investigation uncovered a series of burglaries at the Ocean Club prior to the McCanns stay where the point of entry was the windows. So that is old news.

[Abby Normal]

Refusing to accept the version of the McCanns about the disappearance of their daughter has nothing to do with any fetishes about Covid or any US presidential election. The case is not well past its sell by date since it remains unresolved.

The theory of a phantom abductor remains exactly that, in fact there is less evidence to support it than the theory that Madeleine McCann died in the apartment. Choose which ever adjective you prefer from the list offered on this site: preposterous or ridiculous.

A phantom abductor enters the McCann apartment by exceedingly good fortune since the door is unlocked (their second version of events.) No one sees him. He leaves no trace inside the apartment either, nor does he bother to steal anything, presumably his original motive. He removes the child from the apartment (sedated or unsedated would make little difference at this point) and again is not seen, despite the best efforts of Jane Tanner to claim she saw such an event. He then abducts the child to a place as yet unknown for a purpose as yet unknown. How he does this- on foot or by car- has never been established. As a theory it has not a single scrap of evidence to support it. The speculation monitor is off the radar on this theory.

In short the phantom abductor probably does not exist, any more than any other phantom does. Bruekner is merely the latest in a series of paedophiles connected to the area who has been linked to the crime.

yeah ive always had a problem with phantom suspects too.

Kate said when she first arrived and saw Maddy was missing she noticed the bedroom window and outside blinds open. Gerry said he closed both before police arrived and that the blinds could be opened from the outside. After the police looked at the window, not only did they not find any sign of forced entry, or any kind of evidence of entry through the window at all, it was discovered that the heavy metal blinds locked in place when closed and could ONLY be opened and closed from the inside. Along with the mcanns initially telling the police they kept the doors locked but having to later admit they kept them open we now have a scenario according to the mcanns that an outside abductor somehow went through a window when it wasnt needed because both entrances were left unlocked but also window/blinds that couldnt be opened from tje outside and had no signs of entry, forced or otherwise. With all the changing of stories and discrepencies, no wonder they were made official suspects. suspecthood that by portugese law automatically goes away whenthey closed the unsolved case but infact they were never cleared, which was the last legal ruling made by the portugese Judges in the libel case where the mcanns tried to sue the lead investigator for writing a book which said the mcanns were involved, a case which the judges also threw out, ruling in favor of the lead investigator.

And more odd behavior by the one of the mcanns. when kate discovered maddy missing she immediately ran back to the restuarant screaming Shes gone, theyve taken her! wtf?!?If it was me, my first reaction especially knowing i left doors unlocked is that she got up looking for me again and wandered outside, not that she had been abducted. and if she really thought she had beed kidnapped,shes really going to leave the twin babies alone again when said abductor could still be around?!? Once again no wonder they were suspects and never cleared.

[cobalt]

Refusing to accept the version of the McCanns about the disappearance of their daughter has nothing to do with any fetishes about Covid or any US presidential election. The case is not well past its sell by date since it remains unresolved.

The theory of a phantom abductor remains exactly that, in fact there is less evidence to support it than the theory that Madeleine McCann died in the apartment. Choose which ever adjective you prefer from the list offered on this site: preposterous or ridiculous.

A phantom abductor enters the McCann apartment by exceedingly good fortune since the door is unlocked (their second version of events.) No one sees him. He leaves no trace inside the apartment either, nor does he bother to steal anything, presumably his original motive. He removes the child from the apartment (sedated or unsedated would make little difference at this point) and again is not seen, despite the best efforts of Jane Tanner to claim she saw such an event. He then abducts the child to a place as yet unknown for a purpose as yet unknown. How he does this- on foot or by car- has never been established. As a theory it has not a single scrap of evidence to support it. The speculation monitor is off the radar on this theory.

In short the phantom abductor probably does not exist, any more than any other phantom does. Bruekner is merely the latest in a series of paedophiles connected to the area who has been linked to the crime.

[Sunny Delight]

well as for me, i too think the most likely scenario is child abduction by an outside intruder (greatly aided by parents neglect of course) but i would not rule out the mcanns being responsible. either by accidental overdose, an accident due to parental neglect or murder/ manslaughter.
since your asking for a scenario ill give it a shot. the accident or murder takes place before they leave for the restuarant, the parents ditch the body somewhere outside the apartment, and stage a break in. In this scenario I wouldnt rule out help from one of the tapas seven as apparently they were all shitty parents too. perhaps they move the body later with a rented car or the dogs alerting on the boot of the car is because it wasnt a dead body, but maybe some kind of transfer onto materials they later used to move the body, clean up with etc. But the Dogs alerting to blood in the apartment is even more damming for the mcanns than the car alert and points to murder or manslaughter of Maddy.
Also, the lying to the investigators, uncooperation with the police, and the mccans leaving the country while their daughter is still missing during an ongoing investigation (extremely odd behaviour imho) point to possible direct involvement.

Theres a reason most murder/disappearance cases start with people closest to the victim, because theyre usually the perp. With this fact, the dog alerts, evidence of staging, not working with the police, no evidence of an intruder, etc. and the blatant fact that the case is unsolved to say that the idea the mcanns might be directly involved is preposterous ...is even more preposterous.

Thanks for offering a scenario. To delve somewhat deeper-

Where would the body be hidden in such short order and not be found by the frantic searchers a few hours later?

You now add the possibility of help from one of the Tapas Seven. How do you rate the chances of Gerry approaching one of them prior the meal and suggesting that him and Kate had just killed their daughter by accident and required some help. Could they help either in hiding the body or staging a break in. Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds?

So they possibly hired a different car to move their child's body and then returned it I assume. Using a false name? They kept the material used to transfer the body and put it into the boot of another hired car. This maybe what the dogs picked up on? We are down the rabbit hole now.

The uncooperation has been dealt with. Leaving the country because they no longer have any faith in a disgrace of a Police investigation is not odd and surely they could not have stayed out there forever? Is that what you expected? Hardly any indicator of guilt of murder.

As PI states this is long past its sell by date. Amarel has made plenty of money but he is totally disgraced and discredited. The only people holding onto the McCanns are guilty are the anti- vaxxers and Trump won the election headbangers.

[Sunny Delight]

bingo DK and same here. When we went on vacation when my kids were little i wasnt even comfortable leaving them in the resort daycare. That the mccanns were ok with leaving there babies alone and unattended in a hotel in a foreign country, god knows what type of neglect they did at home. They are not fit and proper parents and should have been charged with abuse, neglect and or child endangerment. I also find it disgusting that people would defend these losers.

I think the vast majority of people were appalled that the children were left unattended in their rooms whilst the party went to dinner. Indeed when one of the parents returned to the apartment to check his child he found she had been up being sick. That is distressing in itself. You don't know the McCanns though so referring to them as 'losers' is well childish.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

... i would not rule out the mcanns being responsible ... by ... murder/ manslaughter ... the parents ditch the body somewhere outside the apartment, and stage a break in... as apparently they were all shitty parents ... the Dogs alerting to blood in the apartment is even more damming for the mcanns ... and points to murder or manslaughter of Maddy.

Also, the lying to the investigators, uncooperation with the police, and the mccans leaving the country while their daughter is still missing during an ongoing investigation (extremely odd behaviour imho) point to possible direct involvement.

Theres a reason most murder/disappearance cases start with people closest to the victim, because theyre usually the perp. With this fact, the dog alerts, evidence of staging, not working with the police, no evidence of an intruder, etc. and the blatant fact that the case is unsolved to say that the idea the mcanns might be directly involved is preposterous ...is even more preposterous.

For mcanns (sic) above, substitute Chamberlains and you have a classic case of a miscarriage of justice, which the Portuguese authorities were wise enough not to repeat.

The same allegations about the mother being cold and not showing enough emotion, the same ridiculous allegations that the parents disposed of the body without the opportunity to do so and without anyone seeing them do so, the same allegations about the parents being bad parents, the same reliance on faulty forensic evidence, the same jumping to conclusions that those closest to the missing girl 'must have done it', the same insistence that no-one else could have done it.

The case is unsolved for the same reason the Chamberlain case remained unsolved for years - because no trace of the victim or her missing clothing has been found.

In the Chamberlains' case, when clothing did turn up, it proved that they had told the truth and that they were innocent.

At this very moment, German police are hoping to find clothing belonging to Madeleine.

Their suspect is not the girl's parents but a German paedophile.

The British and Portuguese police do not suspect the parents either.

The whole campaign against the McCanns is way out-of-date and past its sell-by date, as there never was a case against them and all the supposedly incriminating evidence against them has been discredited.

[Abby Normal]

I used to take my daughter away on my own for a few days to a week , three times a year at various holiday camps/parks in this country from the age of 3 to 11 [ when I started going with my partner and her daughter ]. Not once, not ever did I leave my daughter in a chalet or apartment on her own at night. I would not dream of it, even though child listening services were available etc
I find it completely distasteful that anyone would defend the Mcann's or any of the Tapas seven on this issue.

bingo DK and same here. When we went on vacation when my kids were little i wasnt even comfortable leaving them in the resort daycare. That the mccanns were ok with leaving there babies alone and unattended in a hotel in a foreign country, god knows what type of neglect they did at home. They are not fit and proper parents and should have been charged with abuse, neglect and or child endangerment. I also find it disgusting that people would defend these losers.

[Abby Normal]

The break ins only became public knowledge in 2013 after the MET's investigation. At the time the McCanns stayed they couldn't have been aware of the break ins. It was kept quiet so as not to affect the tourist trade. You are looking at the case with hindsight. But yes an unlocked door would have been very risky and I would always have felt that way.

The PJ files make it clear that the Tapas group had been in Greece the previous year and the hotel had offered a 'listening service'. Essentially this service was an employee checking the hotel rooms of sleeping children by listening at the door and reporting back to the parents every 20 mins or so. The Tapas group decided that on the holiday to Algarve they would do a DIY listening service by taking turns to check their children and then listening for any cries in their friends apartments. 2007 was 16 years ago but surely baby monitors were freely available then. But that was the decision they made. Speculation of 'sedation' of their children by the group is simply that. Speculation. No evidence has ever been presented to even suggest it apart from those with feverish imaginations.

You still have not answered my question. If it was an accidental overdose what did the McCanns do with her body for 26 days before transporting it in the car. If the body was left outside or in a shallow grave the temperatures would have meant decomposition to such an extent that it would have been irretrievable. So do you subscribe to the view that the McCanns acquired a fridge to store the body before transporting it 26 days later in the hire car? Because that to Mr is an utterly preposterous theory.

well as for me, i too think the most likely scenario is child abduction by an outside intruder (greatly aided by parents neglect of course) but i would not rule out the mcanns being responsible. either by accidental overdose, an accident due to parental neglect or murder/ manslaughter.
since your asking for a scenario ill give it a shot. the accident or murder takes place before they leave for the restuarant, the parents ditch the body somewhere outside the apartment, and stage a break in. In this scenario I wouldnt rule out help from one of the tapas seven as apparently they were all shitty parents too. perhaps they move the body later with a rented car or the dogs alerting on the boot of the car is because it wasnt a dead body, but maybe some kind of transfer onto materials they later used to move the body, clean up with etc. But the Dogs alerting to blood in the apartment is even more damming for the mcanns than the car alert and points to murder or manslaughter of Maddy.
Also, the lying to the investigators, uncooperation with the police, and the mccans leaving the country while their daughter is still missing during an ongoing investigation (extremely odd behaviour imho) point to possible direct involvement.

Theres a reason most murder/disappearance cases start with people closest to the victim, because theyre usually the perp. With this fact, the dog alerts, evidence of staging, not working with the police, no evidence of an intruder, etc. and the blatant fact that the case is unsolved to say that the idea the mcanns might be directly involved is preposterous ...is even more preposterous.