Madeleine McCann

[Sunny Delight]

Refusing to accept the version of the McCanns about the disappearance of their daughter has nothing to do with any fetishes about Covid or any US presidential election. The case is not well past its sell by date since it remains unresolved.

The theory of a phantom abductor remains exactly that, in fact there is less evidence to support it than the theory that Madeleine McCann died in the apartment. Choose which ever adjective you prefer from the list offered on this site: preposterous or ridiculous.

A phantom abductor enters the McCann apartment by exceedingly good fortune since the door is unlocked (their second version of events.) No one sees him. He leaves no trace inside the apartment either, nor does he bother to steal anything, presumably his original motive. He removes the child from the apartment (sedated or unsedated would make little difference at this point) and again is not seen, despite the best efforts of Jane Tanner to claim she saw such an event. He then abducts the child to a place as yet unknown for a purpose as yet unknown. How he does this- on foot or by car- has never been established. As a theory it has not a single scrap of evidence to support it. The speculation monitor is off the radar on this theory.

In short the phantom abductor probably does not exist, any more than any other phantom does. Bruekner is merely the latest in a series of paedophiles connected to the area who has been linked to the crime.

Just because you dismiss evidence doesn't mean there is none. The window and shutters being open is a key bit of evidence yet you dismiss it. You claim the shutters could not be open from outside yet this is exactly how burglaries were being committed at the Ocean Club in the months prior to the McCanns stay. Jane Tanner's suspect has been eliminated as far as can be reasonably ascertained. This was a British man who in 2007 had told the Police his movements. It took until 2014 for him to be found.

For me the main suspect must be the man seen by the Smiths. Now of course the Smiths had not been suspicious of this man at the time. They had felt he had acted in a natural way. And seeing someone carrying a sleeping child on holidays at night is hardly unusual. However given what we know now and the fact that this man has never been traced he is certainly a person of real interest. Here we have a lone male carrying a blonde haired girl of 3-4 years of age about 400 yards from the McCanns apartment wearing pink pj's and sleeping on the man's shoulder. The time is not certain but it was around 10pm. She was not covered by a blanket nor did she have a jacket of any kind. No one could remember if she was wearing shoes and only Aoife thought she was wearing long sleeves. The others could not recall. The question one has to ask is- at 10pm on a Thursday night why would someone be carrying their young child in their pj's through Luz. Someone who has not been traced to any of the creche's that were being used that night.

Martin Smith later said he had an 80% certainty that the man was Gerry McCann. His reasoning had been his mannerisms on walking down stairs from the return flight to the UK had triggered something for him. None of the other families agreed with his assertion. It could not have been Gerry as he could be placed with others at that time despite what some may say. Smith later withdrew his assertion and the Police felt he had been mistaken. He later came to the same conclusion himself.

[Sunny Delight]

yeah ive always had a problem with phantom suspects too.

Kate said when she first arrived and saw Maddy was missing she noticed the bedroom window and outside blinds open. Gerry said he closed both before police arrived and that the blinds could be opened from the outside. After the police looked at the window, not only did they not find any sign of forced entry, or any kind of evidence of entry through the window at all, it was discovered that the heavy metal blinds locked in place when closed and could ONLY be opened and closed from the inside. Along with the mcanns initially telling the police they kept the doors locked but having to later admit they kept them open we now have a scenario according to the mcanns that an outside abductor somehow went through a window when it wasnt needed because both entrances were left unlocked but also window/blinds that couldnt be opened from tje outside and had no signs of entry, forced or otherwise. With all the changing of stories and discrepencies, no wonder they were made official suspects. suspecthood that by portugese law automatically goes away whenthey closed the unsolved case but infact they were never cleared, which was the last legal ruling made by the portugese Judges in the libel case where the mcanns tried to sue the lead investigator for writing a book which said the mcanns were involved, a case which the judges also threw out, ruling in favor of the lead investigator.

And more odd behavior by the one of the mcanns. when kate discovered maddy missing she immediately ran back to the restuarant screaming Shes gone, theyve taken her! wtf?!?If it was me, my first reaction especially knowing i left doors unlocked is that she got up looking for me again and wandered outside, not that she had been abducted. and if she really thought she had beed kidnapped,shes really going to leave the twin babies alone again when said abductor could still be around?!? Once again no wonder they were suspects and never cleared.

You do not know how you would react. Kate's reaction to me seems natural in that she was in a blind panic and did something irrational which was leave the babies alone. Panic will do that to you. Judging her on that is scrapping the barrel. As for the shutters this has been proven that they did open from outside. The MET investigation uncovered a series of burglaries at the Ocean Club prior to the McCanns stay where the point of entry was the windows. So that is old news.

[Abby Normal]

Refusing to accept the version of the McCanns about the disappearance of their daughter has nothing to do with any fetishes about Covid or any US presidential election. The case is not well past its sell by date since it remains unresolved.

The theory of a phantom abductor remains exactly that, in fact there is less evidence to support it than the theory that Madeleine McCann died in the apartment. Choose which ever adjective you prefer from the list offered on this site: preposterous or ridiculous.

A phantom abductor enters the McCann apartment by exceedingly good fortune since the door is unlocked (their second version of events.) No one sees him. He leaves no trace inside the apartment either, nor does he bother to steal anything, presumably his original motive. He removes the child from the apartment (sedated or unsedated would make little difference at this point) and again is not seen, despite the best efforts of Jane Tanner to claim she saw such an event. He then abducts the child to a place as yet unknown for a purpose as yet unknown. How he does this- on foot or by car- has never been established. As a theory it has not a single scrap of evidence to support it. The speculation monitor is off the radar on this theory.

In short the phantom abductor probably does not exist, any more than any other phantom does. Bruekner is merely the latest in a series of paedophiles connected to the area who has been linked to the crime.

yeah ive always had a problem with phantom suspects too.

Kate said when she first arrived and saw Maddy was missing she noticed the bedroom window and outside blinds open. Gerry said he closed both before police arrived and that the blinds could be opened from the outside. After the police looked at the window, not only did they not find any sign of forced entry, or any kind of evidence of entry through the window at all, it was discovered that the heavy metal blinds locked in place when closed and could ONLY be opened and closed from the inside. Along with the mcanns initially telling the police they kept the doors locked but having to later admit they kept them open we now have a scenario according to the mcanns that an outside abductor somehow went through a window when it wasnt needed because both entrances were left unlocked but also window/blinds that couldnt be opened from tje outside and had no signs of entry, forced or otherwise. With all the changing of stories and discrepencies, no wonder they were made official suspects. suspecthood that by portugese law automatically goes away whenthey closed the unsolved case but infact they were never cleared, which was the last legal ruling made by the portugese Judges in the libel case where the mcanns tried to sue the lead investigator for writing a book which said the mcanns were involved, a case which the judges also threw out, ruling in favor of the lead investigator.

And more odd behavior by the one of the mcanns. when kate discovered maddy missing she immediately ran back to the restuarant screaming Shes gone, theyve taken her! wtf?!?If it was me, my first reaction especially knowing i left doors unlocked is that she got up looking for me again and wandered outside, not that she had been abducted. and if she really thought she had beed kidnapped,shes really going to leave the twin babies alone again when said abductor could still be around?!? Once again no wonder they were suspects and never cleared.

[cobalt]

Refusing to accept the version of the McCanns about the disappearance of their daughter has nothing to do with any fetishes about Covid or any US presidential election. The case is not well past its sell by date since it remains unresolved.

The theory of a phantom abductor remains exactly that, in fact there is less evidence to support it than the theory that Madeleine McCann died in the apartment. Choose which ever adjective you prefer from the list offered on this site: preposterous or ridiculous.

A phantom abductor enters the McCann apartment by exceedingly good fortune since the door is unlocked (their second version of events.) No one sees him. He leaves no trace inside the apartment either, nor does he bother to steal anything, presumably his original motive. He removes the child from the apartment (sedated or unsedated would make little difference at this point) and again is not seen, despite the best efforts of Jane Tanner to claim she saw such an event. He then abducts the child to a place as yet unknown for a purpose as yet unknown. How he does this- on foot or by car- has never been established. As a theory it has not a single scrap of evidence to support it. The speculation monitor is off the radar on this theory.

In short the phantom abductor probably does not exist, any more than any other phantom does. Bruekner is merely the latest in a series of paedophiles connected to the area who has been linked to the crime.

[Sunny Delight]

well as for me, i too think the most likely scenario is child abduction by an outside intruder (greatly aided by parents neglect of course) but i would not rule out the mcanns being responsible. either by accidental overdose, an accident due to parental neglect or murder/ manslaughter.
since your asking for a scenario ill give it a shot. the accident or murder takes place before they leave for the restuarant, the parents ditch the body somewhere outside the apartment, and stage a break in. In this scenario I wouldnt rule out help from one of the tapas seven as apparently they were all shitty parents too. perhaps they move the body later with a rented car or the dogs alerting on the boot of the car is because it wasnt a dead body, but maybe some kind of transfer onto materials they later used to move the body, clean up with etc. But the Dogs alerting to blood in the apartment is even more damming for the mcanns than the car alert and points to murder or manslaughter of Maddy.
Also, the lying to the investigators, uncooperation with the police, and the mccans leaving the country while their daughter is still missing during an ongoing investigation (extremely odd behaviour imho) point to possible direct involvement.

Theres a reason most murder/disappearance cases start with people closest to the victim, because theyre usually the perp. With this fact, the dog alerts, evidence of staging, not working with the police, no evidence of an intruder, etc. and the blatant fact that the case is unsolved to say that the idea the mcanns might be directly involved is preposterous ...is even more preposterous.

Thanks for offering a scenario. To delve somewhat deeper-

Where would the body be hidden in such short order and not be found by the frantic searchers a few hours later?

You now add the possibility of help from one of the Tapas Seven. How do you rate the chances of Gerry approaching one of them prior the meal and suggesting that him and Kate had just killed their daughter by accident and required some help. Could they help either in hiding the body or staging a break in. Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds?

So they possibly hired a different car to move their child's body and then returned it I assume. Using a false name? They kept the material used to transfer the body and put it into the boot of another hired car. This maybe what the dogs picked up on? We are down the rabbit hole now.

The uncooperation has been dealt with. Leaving the country because they no longer have any faith in a disgrace of a Police investigation is not odd and surely they could not have stayed out there forever? Is that what you expected? Hardly any indicator of guilt of murder.

As PI states this is long past its sell by date. Amarel has made plenty of money but he is totally disgraced and discredited. The only people holding onto the McCanns are guilty are the anti- vaxxers and Trump won the election headbangers.

[Sunny Delight]

bingo DK and same here. When we went on vacation when my kids were little i wasnt even comfortable leaving them in the resort daycare. That the mccanns were ok with leaving there babies alone and unattended in a hotel in a foreign country, god knows what type of neglect they did at home. They are not fit and proper parents and should have been charged with abuse, neglect and or child endangerment. I also find it disgusting that people would defend these losers.

I think the vast majority of people were appalled that the children were left unattended in their rooms whilst the party went to dinner. Indeed when one of the parents returned to the apartment to check his child he found she had been up being sick. That is distressing in itself. You don't know the McCanns though so referring to them as 'losers' is well childish.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

... i would not rule out the mcanns being responsible ... by ... murder/ manslaughter ... the parents ditch the body somewhere outside the apartment, and stage a break in... as apparently they were all shitty parents ... the Dogs alerting to blood in the apartment is even more damming for the mcanns ... and points to murder or manslaughter of Maddy.

Also, the lying to the investigators, uncooperation with the police, and the mccans leaving the country while their daughter is still missing during an ongoing investigation (extremely odd behaviour imho) point to possible direct involvement.

Theres a reason most murder/disappearance cases start with people closest to the victim, because theyre usually the perp. With this fact, the dog alerts, evidence of staging, not working with the police, no evidence of an intruder, etc. and the blatant fact that the case is unsolved to say that the idea the mcanns might be directly involved is preposterous ...is even more preposterous.

For mcanns (sic) above, substitute Chamberlains and you have a classic case of a miscarriage of justice, which the Portuguese authorities were wise enough not to repeat.

The same allegations about the mother being cold and not showing enough emotion, the same ridiculous allegations that the parents disposed of the body without the opportunity to do so and without anyone seeing them do so, the same allegations about the parents being bad parents, the same reliance on faulty forensic evidence, the same jumping to conclusions that those closest to the missing girl 'must have done it', the same insistence that no-one else could have done it.

The case is unsolved for the same reason the Chamberlain case remained unsolved for years - because no trace of the victim or her missing clothing has been found.

In the Chamberlains' case, when clothing did turn up, it proved that they had told the truth and that they were innocent.

At this very moment, German police are hoping to find clothing belonging to Madeleine.

Their suspect is not the girl's parents but a German paedophile.

The British and Portuguese police do not suspect the parents either.

The whole campaign against the McCanns is way out-of-date and past its sell-by date, as there never was a case against them and all the supposedly incriminating evidence against them has been discredited.

[Abby Normal]

I used to take my daughter away on my own for a few days to a week , three times a year at various holiday camps/parks in this country from the age of 3 to 11 [ when I started going with my partner and her daughter ]. Not once, not ever did I leave my daughter in a chalet or apartment on her own at night. I would not dream of it, even though child listening services were available etc
I find it completely distasteful that anyone would defend the Mcann's or any of the Tapas seven on this issue.

bingo DK and same here. When we went on vacation when my kids were little i wasnt even comfortable leaving them in the resort daycare. That the mccanns were ok with leaving there babies alone and unattended in a hotel in a foreign country, god knows what type of neglect they did at home. They are not fit and proper parents and should have been charged with abuse, neglect and or child endangerment. I also find it disgusting that people would defend these losers.

[Abby Normal]

The break ins only became public knowledge in 2013 after the MET's investigation. At the time the McCanns stayed they couldn't have been aware of the break ins. It was kept quiet so as not to affect the tourist trade. You are looking at the case with hindsight. But yes an unlocked door would have been very risky and I would always have felt that way.

The PJ files make it clear that the Tapas group had been in Greece the previous year and the hotel had offered a 'listening service'. Essentially this service was an employee checking the hotel rooms of sleeping children by listening at the door and reporting back to the parents every 20 mins or so. The Tapas group decided that on the holiday to Algarve they would do a DIY listening service by taking turns to check their children and then listening for any cries in their friends apartments. 2007 was 16 years ago but surely baby monitors were freely available then. But that was the decision they made. Speculation of 'sedation' of their children by the group is simply that. Speculation. No evidence has ever been presented to even suggest it apart from those with feverish imaginations.

You still have not answered my question. If it was an accidental overdose what did the McCanns do with her body for 26 days before transporting it in the car. If the body was left outside or in a shallow grave the temperatures would have meant decomposition to such an extent that it would have been irretrievable. So do you subscribe to the view that the McCanns acquired a fridge to store the body before transporting it 26 days later in the hire car? Because that to Mr is an utterly preposterous theory.

well as for me, i too think the most likely scenario is child abduction by an outside intruder (greatly aided by parents neglect of course) but i would not rule out the mcanns being responsible. either by accidental overdose, an accident due to parental neglect or murder/ manslaughter.
since your asking for a scenario ill give it a shot. the accident or murder takes place before they leave for the restuarant, the parents ditch the body somewhere outside the apartment, and stage a break in. In this scenario I wouldnt rule out help from one of the tapas seven as apparently they were all shitty parents too. perhaps they move the body later with a rented car or the dogs alerting on the boot of the car is because it wasnt a dead body, but maybe some kind of transfer onto materials they later used to move the body, clean up with etc. But the Dogs alerting to blood in the apartment is even more damming for the mcanns than the car alert and points to murder or manslaughter of Maddy.
Also, the lying to the investigators, uncooperation with the police, and the mccans leaving the country while their daughter is still missing during an ongoing investigation (extremely odd behaviour imho) point to possible direct involvement.

Theres a reason most murder/disappearance cases start with people closest to the victim, because theyre usually the perp. With this fact, the dog alerts, evidence of staging, not working with the police, no evidence of an intruder, etc. and the blatant fact that the case is unsolved to say that the idea the mcanns might be directly involved is preposterous ...is even more preposterous.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Please see my replies below.

'Is it not obvious that they, like the McCann couple, had an erroneous view of what kind of environment they were in?'

I'm not sure what is meant by 'environment'- maybe a holiday resort where there were had been a number of break ins?

Is it certain that the McCanns or their friends knew about the break-ins or that they knew that any child had previously been abducted?


I would have thought that basic common sense would have prevented anyone from leaving such young children alone inside an apartment with an unlocked door. (If that was the case.)

I agree, but is lacking common sense a crime?


Speculation about the children of the Tapas group being sedated was there right from the beginning.

Speculation is not evidence.

The McCanns claimed that tests on hair belonging to their children showed no traces of sedatives.


The public could accept that one set of parents might have been reckless enough to leave young children alone, but all of them? All who happened to be doctors? An entire group of trained professionals who all made exactly the same massive miscalculation, as any common or garden parent could have explained to them in a matter of minutes? It didn't sit right then and it doesn't sit right now.

Acting in such a way as to make it easier for a criminal to victimise one does not make one an accessory to a crime.


Of course Kate McCann had the right to remain silent if she thought she was a suspect. But the PJ had every right to regard her as such and they also had the right to draw inferences from her refusal to answer any of the questions.

There was no evidence against her.

As in the Chamberlain case, no charges should ever have been contemplated because the McCanns, like the Chamberlains, could not conceivably have disposed of their child's body.

If a policeman presents a distraught parent with questions which assume she is guilty of disposing of her child's body, he has no right to draw any inference from her refusal to degrade herself by answering those questions.

[Sunny Delight]

That's the exact scenario that the police are investigating in reference to the German suspect, Christian Brueckner.

The most likely scenario to my mind.

[Sunny Delight]

'Is it not obvious that they, like the McCann couple, had an erroneous view of what kind of environment they were in?'

I'm not sure what is meant by 'environment'- maybe a holiday resort where there were had been a number of break ins? I would have thought that basic common sense would have prevented anyone from leaving such young children alone inside an apartment with an unlocked door. (If that was the case.)

Speculation about the children of the Tapas group being sedated was there right from the beginning. The public could accept that one set of parents might have been reckless enough to leave young children alone, but all of them? All who happened to be doctors? An entire group of trained professionals who all made exactly the same massive miscalculation, as any common or garden parent could have explained to them in a matter of minutes? It didn't sit right then and it doesn't sit right now.

Of course Kate McCann had the right to remain silent if she thought she was a suspect. But the PJ had every right to regard her as such and they also had the right to draw inferences from her refusal to answer any of the questions.

The break ins only became public knowledge in 2013 after the MET's investigation. At the time the McCanns stayed they couldn't have been aware of the break ins. It was kept quiet so as not to affect the tourist trade. You are looking at the case with hindsight. But yes an unlocked door would have been very risky and I would always have felt that way.

The PJ files make it clear that the Tapas group had been in Greece the previous year and the hotel had offered a 'listening service'. Essentially this service was an employee checking the hotel rooms of sleeping children by listening at the door and reporting back to the parents every 20 mins or so. The Tapas group decided that on the holiday to Algarve they would do a DIY listening service by taking turns to check their children and then listening for any cries in their friends apartments. 2007 was 16 years ago but surely baby monitors were freely available then. But that was the decision they made. Speculation of 'sedation' of their children by the group is simply that. Speculation. No evidence has ever been presented to even suggest it apart from those with feverish imaginations.

You still have not answered my question. If it was an accidental overdose what did the McCanns do with her body for 26 days before transporting it in the car. If the body was left outside or in a shallow grave the temperatures would have meant decomposition to such an extent that it would have been irretrievable. So do you subscribe to the view that the McCanns acquired a fridge to store the body before transporting it 26 days later in the hire car? Because that to Mr is an utterly preposterous theory.

[rjpalmer]

It’s possible that a thief struck lucky with an open door then turned his attentions to abduction instead

That's the exact scenario that the police are investigating in reference to the German suspect, Christian Brueckner.

[cobalt]

'Is it not obvious that they, like the McCann couple, had an erroneous view of what kind of environment they were in?'

I'm not sure what is meant by 'environment'- maybe a holiday resort where there were had been a number of break ins? I would have thought that basic common sense would have prevented anyone from leaving such young children alone inside an apartment with an unlocked door. (If that was the case.)

Speculation about the children of the Tapas group being sedated was there right from the beginning. The public could accept that one set of parents might have been reckless enough to leave young children alone, but all of them? All who happened to be doctors? An entire group of trained professionals who all made exactly the same massive miscalculation, as any common or garden parent could have explained to them in a matter of minutes? It didn't sit right then and it doesn't sit right now.

Of course Kate McCann had the right to remain silent if she thought she was a suspect. But the PJ had every right to regard her as such and they also had the right to draw inferences from her refusal to answer any of the questions.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I defended them against the charge that they are not fit and proper parents.