Madeleine McCann

[Abby Normal]

In the Netflix series The disappearance of Madeline Mcann. The investigative journalist Robbyn Swan who wrote the book Looking for Madeline which you could argue is pro Mcann in its outlook, says that Gerry Mcann entered through the patio doors. I think if he said otherwise she would have mentioned it.

Now I have read somewhere that the Mcann's said that they didn't use the front door because it made a noise when being used and they didn't want to wake the kiddies up [ was this ever tested ? ] . Yet on the Netflix documentary either Robbyn Swan or her husband Antony Summers said that the children were very tired that evening and went into a sleep straight away, even before the bedtime story had finished.
To me one possible reason they didn't use the front door is because it was further to walk , and didn't want to admit it.

Speaking of the checking on the children Matthew Oldfield offered to check on the Mcann's at 9 :30 . Yet he didn't go into the bedroom and never saw them, some check.
Did the Mcann's not even ask him if they had seen the three kiddies asleep ? And if they did why didn't Kate go and check herself earlier than 10 pm just to put their mind at rest. Plus factor in the noise that Oldfield was supposed to have heard . That could have been one of the children waking up.

And what of Kate herself ? She goes to the room at 10 pm sees the door open yet instead of just popping her head around the corner to see everything is ok. She simply attempts to put the door back into it's original position . Again, some check . It was only after the door slammed shut that Kate did check.

I am with Abby on this one. can we really believe everything they said . Gerry about the shutters etc. Can we even be 100% sure that when he checked at 9 pm he saw his children asleep ? Yes he would be heartbroken, of course but again I believe a part of self preservation kicked in regarding himself, his position, and potential charges of neglect, which only led to confusion

Regards Darryl

hi DK
good post. yes ive often wondered about the thoroughness and truthfulness of the checks too. and i agree totally about self preservation, and it makes one wonder, what and how much were they self preserving about? how much were they trying to hide?

[Sunny Delight]

hi franko
yes of course im talking about initially /the first time they talked to police. ive only said it every time that ive mentioned it. not sure why your struggling with this.

But they never lied about an unlocked door?

[Abby Normal]

I don't know if you're talking about statements they gave to police in the first few hours after the discovery, but if you're not, then you're wrong. They both said in their police statements the next day that the terrace door was left unlocked.

hi franko
yes of course im talking about initially /the first time they talked to police. ive only said it every time that ive mentioned it. not sure why your struggling with this.

[Sunny Delight]

I do not understand why the McCanns' every statement is expected to agree with every other statement made by them in order for them not to be considered suspects in the disappearance and possible murder of their own child.

I wonder how many of their accusers would fare better were they to find themselves in a similarly unfortunate situation.

I find it significant that the discrepency in Gerry McCanns statement is leapt upon by sceptics. However he was explicit in stating on 4th May that the sliding doors were never locked. They were always open. That he subsequently changed his story on his own point of entry is a moot point as he never ever stated anything other than the sliding doors always being open.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I do not understand why the McCanns' every statement is expected to agree with every other statement made by them in order for them not to be considered suspects in the disappearance and possible murder of their own child.

I wonder how many of their accusers would fare better were they to find themselves in a similarly unfortunate situation.

[Sunny Delight]

In the Netflix series The disappearance of Madeline Mcann. The investigative journalist Robbyn Swan who wrote the book Looking for Madeline which you could argue is pro Mcann in its outlook, says that Gerry Mcann entered through the patio doors. I think if he said otherwise she would have mentioned it.

Now I have read somewhere that the Mcann's said that they didn't use the front door because it made a noise when being used and they didn't want to wake the kiddies up [ was this ever tested ? ] . Yet on the Netflix documentary either Robbyn Swan or her husband Antony Summers said that the children were very tired that evening and went into a sleep straight away, even before the bedtime story had finished.
To me one possible reason they didn't use the front door is because it was further to walk , and didn't want to admit it.

Speaking of the checking on the children Matthew Oldfield offered to check on the Mcann's at 9 :30 . Yet he didn't go into the bedroom and never saw them, some check.
Did the Mcann's not even ask him if they had seen the three kiddies asleep ? And if they did why didn't Kate go and check herself earlier than 10 pm just to put their mind at rest. Plus factor in the noise that Oldfield was supposed to have heard . That could have been one of the children waking up.

And what of Kate herself ? She goes to the room at 10 pm sees the door open yet instead of just popping her head around the corner to see everything is ok. She simply attempts to put the door back into it's original position . Again, some check . It was only after the door slammed shut that Kate did check.

I am with Abby on this one. can we really believe everything they said . Gerry about the shutters etc. Can we even be 100% sure that when he checked at 9 pm he saw his children asleep ? Yes he would be heartbroken, of course but again I believe a part of self preservation kicked in regarding himself, his position, and potential charges of neglect, which only led to confusion

Regards Darryl

Yes indeed, there was a discrepency from Gerry McCann's statement on the 4th May where I stated:

'In this way, at about 21.05 the witness came to the Club, entered the room using his respective key, the door being locked, went to his children's bedroom and checked that the twins were fine, as was Madeleine.'He then went to the WC" where he remained for a few moments, left, and bumped into a person he had played tennis with and who had a child's push chair, he was also British, he had a short conversation with him, "returning after that to the restaurant." At about 21.30 his friend Matt (member of the group) went to the apartment, where his children were and on his way went to the witness' apartment, entering by means of a glass sliding door that was always unlocked and was located laterally to the building.'

10th May he then said the following:

'----- He followed the normal route up to the rear door, which being open he only had to move [slide] it, that being the way in which he entered [was entering] the lounge, he noted that the children's bedroom door was not ajar as he had left it but half-way open, which he thought strange, having then put together the thought of MADELEINE having got up to go to sleep in his bedroom so as to avoid the noise produced [created] by her siblings. In this way he entered the children's bedroom and established visual contact with each of them, checking and is certain of this, that the three were sleeping deeply. He left the children's bedroom returning to place the door how he had already previously described, [then] going to the bathroom. Everything else was normal, the blinds, curtains and windows closed, very dark, there only being the light that came from the lounge.'

'----- He adds that he never entered any other part of the residence [his bedroom or the kitchen] where he was for only two or three minutes, leaving yet again through the rear door that he closed but did not lock. He clarifies that he returned without seeing the children of any other family because he had not been asked to by them.'

Abby is correct in the assertion that the Police were given the wrong info initially. Whether that was by design or accident I suppose we will never really know.

I do think we have to try and understand the McCanns and why they acted in such a way in regards checking the children. It appears they were only really concerned by any crying or the like of the children. Matt Oldfield returned to the table after doing Kate's check at 2130 stating 'all is quiet'. Kate seemingly was the same in that she was listening for any crying. Honestly I believe Kate and what she said happened in regards the door etc and it is really chilling to think of that moment when she opened the door and saw the window open. It must have been a terrible realisation.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Yeah I think there is a misunderstanding verging on myth around the door. Gerry in statement refers to entering apartment for his check using a key as the door was locked. He was referring to the front door. He states immediately afterwards thar Matt Oldfield entered the room via a patio door which was always left unlocked.

In the Netflix series The disappearance of Madeline Mcann. The investigative journalist Robbyn Swan who wrote the book Looking for Madeline which you could argue is pro Mcann in its outlook, says that Gerry Mcann entered through the patio doors. I think if he said otherwise she would have mentioned it.

Now I have read somewhere that the Mcann's said that they didn't use the front door because it made a noise when being used and they didn't want to wake the kiddies up [ was this ever tested ? ] . Yet on the Netflix documentary either Robbyn Swan or her husband Antony Summers said that the children were very tired that evening and went into a sleep straight away, even before the bedtime story had finished.
To me one possible reason they didn't use the front door is because it was further to walk , and didn't want to admit it.

Speaking of the checking on the children Matthew Oldfield offered to check on the Mcann's at 9 :30 . Yet he didn't go into the bedroom and never saw them, some check.
Did the Mcann's not even ask him if they had seen the three kiddies asleep ? And if they did why didn't Kate go and check herself earlier than 10 pm just to put their mind at rest. Plus factor in the noise that Oldfield was supposed to have heard . That could have been one of the children waking up.

And what of Kate herself ? She goes to the room at 10 pm sees the door open yet instead of just popping her head around the corner to see everything is ok. She simply attempts to put the door back into it's original position . Again, some check . It was only after the door slammed shut that Kate did check.

I am with Abby on this one. can we really believe everything they said . Gerry about the shutters etc. Can we even be 100% sure that when he checked at 9 pm he saw his children asleep ? Yes he would be heartbroken, of course but again I believe a part of self preservation kicked in regarding himself, his position, and potential charges of neglect, which only led to confusion

Regards Darryl

[Sunny Delight]

I don't know if you're talking about statements they gave to police in the first few hours after the discovery, but if you're not, then you're wrong. They both said in their police statements the next day that the terrace door was left unlocked.

Yeah I think there is a misunderstanding verging on myth around the door. Gerry in statement refers to entering apartment for his check using a key as the door was locked. He was referring to the front door. He states immediately afterwards thar Matt Oldfield entered the room via a patio door which was always left unlocked.

[FrankO]

they intentionally lied to the police about the locked door.

I don't know if you're talking about statements they gave to police in the first few hours after the discovery, but if you're not, then you're wrong. They both said in their police statements the next day that the terrace door was left unlocked.

[FrankO]

You are writing with hindsight. We have to get into the McCanns thinking shortly after the discovery. I think the word used by Gerry was 'jemmied' in regards the window. Gerry is originally from Glasgow which has very close ties with Ireland. In Ireland 'jemmied' means forced usually by something like a crowbar. His assumption which at that moment would have seemed completely rational was that the window could not have been opened from the outside without it and the shutters being forced. His assumption being they were locked.

This is how I see it as well, Sunny. He had assumed the shutters couldn't be opened from the outside and, therefore, had to have been forced open.

[Sunny Delight]

Hi Sunny,

Having had another & better look at photos of the bedroom window, inside and out, you may well be right in case it was a one man job. The open window seems to have have been narrow for that, maybe too narrow. It would, however, have been easy for two persons to do it: one who remained outside by the window and one who went inside by the terrace/back doors, going into the children’s room and then passed Madeleine on to the other person after lifting the shutters and opening the window. If they had a car parked at the front side of the apartment, they could be well on their way within a few minutes without anybody being any the wiser.


Based on the fact that there was quite a number of witnesses who described having seen men hanging around near apartment 5A in the days before the disappearance and on the day itself, I’m more inclined to think it was a planned thing, either by one man or more. But I hope for the McCanns that Brückner leads them to the answers they seek.

Cheers,
Frank

Whilst I agree on the possibility of an organised plot due to the witnesses describing having seen men hanging around 5a in the days beforehand I believe there would have been some sort of intelligence garnered since the event if this was the case. Someone, somewhere would have spilled the beans or left some sort of trail. But it must remain a possibility nonetheless. I am minded though of JTR when at the beginning gangs were suspected of involvement. The newspapers spoke to an elderly man who said, 'it wasn't any gangs involved in this. If it was a gang you can be sure one or Toller would have split on the others, no I bet you it ain't being done like that'. Maybe apt for Madeleine McCann too.....

[Sunny Delight]

no. i totally got youre point tje first time. and i totally see what your saying. my choice is the first situation. remember the context...thyre telling this to family and friends , not the police.

but IMHO your totally over thinking it franko. they intentionally lied to the police about the locked door. they probably lied to their friends and family about the window.they lost the benefit of the doubt when they lied to the police. they proved there not above fibbing to suit there own purpose. and of course the simple fact is that window was not damaged.

You are writing with hindsight. We have to get into the McCanns thinking shortly after the discovery. I think the word used by Gerry was 'jemmied' in regards the window. Gerry is originally from Glasgow which has very close ties with Ireland. In Ireland 'jemmied' means forced usually by something like a crowbar. His assumption which at that moment would have seemed completely rational was that the window could not have been opened from the outside without it and the shutters being forced. His assumption being they were locked.

It appears however that this was not necessarily the case in the apartments. As proven the shutters opened a certain amount before they would have to be forced. However they opened enough so that if the window was not locked it could be slide open from outside and then maneuvering the hand inside the room to the adjuster the shutters can then be raised fully.

[Abby Normal]

It seems I've not been able to get my point across Abby, so I'll have another go.


This is exactly my point. The shutters & window weren't broken or anything and the McCanns would have known this if they invented the open window & shutters.

So why tell anybody that they were broken or jemmied or whatever? It would have been enough to say they found them open while they'd left them closed. My question would be: in which situation would it make more sense to say the shutters were broken and the window tampered with - one where they had invented the open window & shutters or one where they had actually found them open when they'd left them closed?

My choice would, obviously, be the second situation, where, in their panicked & desperate state, they thought the intruders had literally forced their way in through the window.

no. i totally got youre point tje first time. and i totally see what your saying. my choice is the first situation. remember the context...thyre telling this to family and friends , not the police.

but IMHO your totally over thinking it franko. they intentionally lied to the police about the locked door. they probably lied to their friends and family about the window.they lost the benefit of the doubt when they lied to the police and proved there not above fibbing to suit there own purpose. and of course the simple fact is that window was not damaged.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

The fact - if it be a fact - that there may be inconsistencies or inaccuracies in the statements made by an accused person does not necessarily point to that person's guilt.

In the Hanratty case, the survivor of the shooting apparently said that the murderer had brown eyes.

She later stated that he had blue eyes.

For decades, Hanratty's supporters cited this inconsistency as evidence of Hanratty's innocence, as he had blue eyes.

Yet Hanratty's DNA was left on the witness's clothing.

The discrepancy has never been resolved.

One does not need to resolve it in order to know that Hannratty was guilty, nor resolve inconsistencies in the McCannns' statements to realise that they are innocent.

[FrankO]

It seems I've not been able to get my point across Abby, so I'll have another go.

and of course, the window wasnt jammed or broken or smashed was it?

This is exactly my point. The shutters & window weren't broken or anything and the McCanns would have known this if they invented the open window & shutters.

So why tell anybody that they were broken or jemmied or whatever? It would have been enough to say they found them open while they'd left them closed. My question would be: in which situation would it make more sense to say the shutters were broken and the window tampered with - one where they had invented the open window & shutters or one where they had actually found them open when they'd left them closed?

My choice would, obviously, be the second situation, where, in their panicked & desperate state, they thought the intruders had literally forced their way in through the window.