Madeleine McCann

[FrankO]

hi frank
lol, sorry i thought you thought i was the moron, especially since your previous post you were saying i missed your point.
apologies.

No worries, Abbby. I sure didn't think you were a moron, but rather that I was the one who hadn't done a good job getting my point across, not you not getting it. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that English isn't my native language. Anyway, glad that it's straightened out.

Cheers,
Frank

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Hi P.I.,

Can't say I'm entirely surprised as the NZ Herald is an unlikely source to be the first to present such information, but it appears to me (not having had a chance to read the DM article yet) that it is a recent story and not something that was reported on years ago. I could, of course, be mistaken on that, either way thanks for that.

- Jeff

You're welcome, Jeff.

I don't think the existence of the shrine had ever been reported before except to the Portuguese police.

The 'exclusive' Daily Mail scoop was not so exclusive after all: the same story was reported on the same day in the Daily Mirror, Daily Express, Daily Star and The Sun.

[JeffHamm]

It was reported two days earlier in the Daily Mail:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hrine-her.html

Hi P.I.,

Can't say I'm entirely surprised as the NZ Herald is an unlikely source to be the first to present such information, but it appears to me (not having had a chance to read the DM article yet) that it is a recent story and not something that was reported on years ago. I could, of course, be mistaken on that, either way thanks for that.

- Jeff

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Yes. While that was indicated in previous articles I've read, what I hadn't seen before was the reference to the "shrine" with her photograph that apparently had been constructed in the area a few months after her disappearance. Perhaps that has been reported on before, but it is the first time I've come across it.

- Jeff

It was reported two days earlier in the Daily Mail:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12131383/Police-searched-reservoir-Maddie-McCann-case-British-couple-discovered-shrine-her.html

[JeffHamm]

wow thanks Jeff. and apparently the german suspect has ties to that area. the plot thickens.

Yes. While that was indicated in previous articles I've read, what I hadn't seen before was the reference to the "shrine" with her photograph that apparently had been constructed in the area a few months after her disappearance. Perhaps that has been reported on before, but it is the first time I've come across it.

- Jeff

[Abby Normal]

Today there was an interesting update on the recent search in the NZ Herald, so thought I would share.

- Jeff

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/mad...O47NDX4P2DYHU/

wow thanks Jeff. and apparently the german suspect has ties to that area. the plot thickens.

[JeffHamm]

Today there was an interesting update on the recent search in the NZ Herald, so thought I would share.

- Jeff

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/madeleine-mccann-disappearance-weird-shrine-found-at-portugal-reservoir-police-search-location/IZLI2TND5FGN7O47NDX4P2DYHU/

[Abby Normal]

Ooh, so sorry to have bothered you, Abby – won’t happen again - but no need to treat me like some moron, OK? Perhaps you shouldn’t assume that I've read all of your posts.

hi frank
lol, sorry i thought you thought i was the moron, especially since your previous post you were saying i missed your point.
apologies.

[FrankO]

hi franko
yes of course im talking about initially /the first time they talked to police. ive only said it every time that ive mentioned it. not sure why your struggling with this.

Ooh, so sorry to have bothered you, Abby – won’t happen again - but no need to treat me like some moron, OK? Perhaps you shouldn’t assume that I've read all of your posts.

[Abby Normal]

In the Netflix series The disappearance of Madeline Mcann. The investigative journalist Robbyn Swan who wrote the book Looking for Madeline which you could argue is pro Mcann in its outlook, says that Gerry Mcann entered through the patio doors. I think if he said otherwise she would have mentioned it.

Now I have read somewhere that the Mcann's said that they didn't use the front door because it made a noise when being used and they didn't want to wake the kiddies up [ was this ever tested ? ] . Yet on the Netflix documentary either Robbyn Swan or her husband Antony Summers said that the children were very tired that evening and went into a sleep straight away, even before the bedtime story had finished.
To me one possible reason they didn't use the front door is because it was further to walk , and didn't want to admit it.

Speaking of the checking on the children Matthew Oldfield offered to check on the Mcann's at 9 :30 . Yet he didn't go into the bedroom and never saw them, some check.
Did the Mcann's not even ask him if they had seen the three kiddies asleep ? And if they did why didn't Kate go and check herself earlier than 10 pm just to put their mind at rest. Plus factor in the noise that Oldfield was supposed to have heard . That could have been one of the children waking up.

And what of Kate herself ? She goes to the room at 10 pm sees the door open yet instead of just popping her head around the corner to see everything is ok. She simply attempts to put the door back into it's original position . Again, some check . It was only after the door slammed shut that Kate did check.

I am with Abby on this one. can we really believe everything they said . Gerry about the shutters etc. Can we even be 100% sure that when he checked at 9 pm he saw his children asleep ? Yes he would be heartbroken, of course but again I believe a part of self preservation kicked in regarding himself, his position, and potential charges of neglect, which only led to confusion

Regards Darryl

hi DK
good post. yes ive often wondered about the thoroughness and truthfulness of the checks too. and i agree totally about self preservation, and it makes one wonder, what and how much were they self preserving about? how much were they trying to hide?

[Sunny Delight]

hi franko
yes of course im talking about initially /the first time they talked to police. ive only said it every time that ive mentioned it. not sure why your struggling with this.

But they never lied about an unlocked door?

[Abby Normal]

I don't know if you're talking about statements they gave to police in the first few hours after the discovery, but if you're not, then you're wrong. They both said in their police statements the next day that the terrace door was left unlocked.

hi franko
yes of course im talking about initially /the first time they talked to police. ive only said it every time that ive mentioned it. not sure why your struggling with this.

[Sunny Delight]

I do not understand why the McCanns' every statement is expected to agree with every other statement made by them in order for them not to be considered suspects in the disappearance and possible murder of their own child.

I wonder how many of their accusers would fare better were they to find themselves in a similarly unfortunate situation.

I find it significant that the discrepency in Gerry McCanns statement is leapt upon by sceptics. However he was explicit in stating on 4th May that the sliding doors were never locked. They were always open. That he subsequently changed his story on his own point of entry is a moot point as he never ever stated anything other than the sliding doors always being open.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I do not understand why the McCanns' every statement is expected to agree with every other statement made by them in order for them not to be considered suspects in the disappearance and possible murder of their own child.

I wonder how many of their accusers would fare better were they to find themselves in a similarly unfortunate situation.

[Sunny Delight]

In the Netflix series The disappearance of Madeline Mcann. The investigative journalist Robbyn Swan who wrote the book Looking for Madeline which you could argue is pro Mcann in its outlook, says that Gerry Mcann entered through the patio doors. I think if he said otherwise she would have mentioned it.

Now I have read somewhere that the Mcann's said that they didn't use the front door because it made a noise when being used and they didn't want to wake the kiddies up [ was this ever tested ? ] . Yet on the Netflix documentary either Robbyn Swan or her husband Antony Summers said that the children were very tired that evening and went into a sleep straight away, even before the bedtime story had finished.
To me one possible reason they didn't use the front door is because it was further to walk , and didn't want to admit it.

Speaking of the checking on the children Matthew Oldfield offered to check on the Mcann's at 9 :30 . Yet he didn't go into the bedroom and never saw them, some check.
Did the Mcann's not even ask him if they had seen the three kiddies asleep ? And if they did why didn't Kate go and check herself earlier than 10 pm just to put their mind at rest. Plus factor in the noise that Oldfield was supposed to have heard . That could have been one of the children waking up.

And what of Kate herself ? She goes to the room at 10 pm sees the door open yet instead of just popping her head around the corner to see everything is ok. She simply attempts to put the door back into it's original position . Again, some check . It was only after the door slammed shut that Kate did check.

I am with Abby on this one. can we really believe everything they said . Gerry about the shutters etc. Can we even be 100% sure that when he checked at 9 pm he saw his children asleep ? Yes he would be heartbroken, of course but again I believe a part of self preservation kicked in regarding himself, his position, and potential charges of neglect, which only led to confusion

Regards Darryl

Yes indeed, there was a discrepency from Gerry McCann's statement on the 4th May where I stated:

'In this way, at about 21.05 the witness came to the Club, entered the room using his respective key, the door being locked, went to his children's bedroom and checked that the twins were fine, as was Madeleine.'He then went to the WC" where he remained for a few moments, left, and bumped into a person he had played tennis with and who had a child's push chair, he was also British, he had a short conversation with him, "returning after that to the restaurant." At about 21.30 his friend Matt (member of the group) went to the apartment, where his children were and on his way went to the witness' apartment, entering by means of a glass sliding door that was always unlocked and was located laterally to the building.'

10th May he then said the following:

'----- He followed the normal route up to the rear door, which being open he only had to move [slide] it, that being the way in which he entered [was entering] the lounge, he noted that the children's bedroom door was not ajar as he had left it but half-way open, which he thought strange, having then put together the thought of MADELEINE having got up to go to sleep in his bedroom so as to avoid the noise produced [created] by her siblings. In this way he entered the children's bedroom and established visual contact with each of them, checking and is certain of this, that the three were sleeping deeply. He left the children's bedroom returning to place the door how he had already previously described, [then] going to the bathroom. Everything else was normal, the blinds, curtains and windows closed, very dark, there only being the light that came from the lounge.'

'----- He adds that he never entered any other part of the residence [his bedroom or the kitchen] where he was for only two or three minutes, leaving yet again through the rear door that he closed but did not lock. He clarifies that he returned without seeing the children of any other family because he had not been asked to by them.'

Abby is correct in the assertion that the Police were given the wrong info initially. Whether that was by design or accident I suppose we will never really know.

I do think we have to try and understand the McCanns and why they acted in such a way in regards checking the children. It appears they were only really concerned by any crying or the like of the children. Matt Oldfield returned to the table after doing Kate's check at 2130 stating 'all is quiet'. Kate seemingly was the same in that she was listening for any crying. Honestly I believe Kate and what she said happened in regards the door etc and it is really chilling to think of that moment when she opened the door and saw the window open. It must have been a terrible realisation.