Madeleine McCann

[cobalt]

'If Madeleine died that afternoon, where do you suppose she was when David Payne is reported to have visited at about 6 pm.?'

The sniffer dog alerts indicate that the girl was still inside the apartment for at least a couple of hours.

'And if his visit did not take place, does that mean he is part of a conspiracy to make the McCanns appear to be innocent?'

Yes. It's possible the visit did take place but not as described either by himself or Kate McCann. Payne was considered to be the person closest to the McCann family and had been the main organiser of the holiday. The significance of his being the last independent witness who saw the child alive is central to the abduction theory, so the serious disagreement over how long this visit took cannot easily be explained.

'And if such a theory is credible, why is it not being considered by the British, German or Portuguese police forces, and why are they instead focusing on a criminal child molester?'

The theory was taken very seriously by the PJ as the questions put to Kate McCann show clearly. The theory was not capable of being developed so the case remains unsolved, which means the PJ are in no position to pour cold water over any other theory such as child abduction. The British authorities were acting under pressure from the then PM, Gordon Brown, to help the parents rather than investigate them. The German police understandably want Breuckner banged up for life since he is due for release in a couple of years.

[Darryl Kenyon]

The PJ didn't know their arse from their elbow and you are still peddling this which has been discredited since the files were released in 2009. The shutters and window could be opened from outside. The forensics was shoddy and haphazard- those brushing for evidence didn't even wear gloves or protective clothing. The shutters were not jemmied but Gerry in the initial hours felt they must have been because his assumption was they had been locked into place. They hadn't. His assumption was wrong. Are you stuck in a timewarp 2008/09 that you refuse to come out of?

Hi Sunny
I believe you are right about the fingerprint procedure on the window , no gloves etc . I am not saying you are wrong that the window could be unlocked from the outside SD but looking at a photo, the window does appear to have what looks like a handle in the middle of the two panes on the material separating the panes with maybe a lock.
Apologies if I am wrong regarding this . Also I am sure I have seen somewhere that the shutters could be partially lifted from the outside but not locked into position at the top . Again apologies if I am wrong.

Regards Darryl

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

... suspicion the visit was artificially constructed to confirm that Madeleine McCann was alive at a time when she was not.

Am I the only one here who thinks that is farfetched?

If Madeleine died that afternoon, where do you suppose she was when David Payne is reported to have visited at about 6 pm.?

And if his visit did not take place, does that mean he is part of a conspiracy to make the McCanns appear to be innocent?

And if such a theory is credible, why is it not being considered by the British, German or Portuguese police forces, and why are they instead focusing on a criminal child molester?

[rjpalmer]

Sorry for being a trifle rude in my previous reply, Kenyon. I can't disprove the possibility of an abduction but I think the theory that any abductor entered or left by the window has been disproved by the PJ.

An intruder/burglar could have opened the window, even if he never used it. There's a number of reasons why this could have occurred, including a confederate outside the building that he was in contact with.

Further, a male friend of the McCanns supposedly checked on the room and heard something like a child rolling over in bed, but didn't actually look inside the bedroom (obviously, he was a lousy security guard).

If he is telling the truth and what he actually heard was the intruder, the intruder could have silently opened the window to make his escape if necessary, but then didn't bother once he heard the man leave again.

[cobalt]

Sorry for being a trifle rude in my previous reply, Kenyon. I can't disprove the possibility of an abduction but I think the theory that any abductor entered or left by the window has been disproved by the PJ.


'I would like to hear from those who do not accept that Madeleine was abducted between 9.05 p.m. and 10 p.m. on 3 May 2007,
when approximately they think she really went missing.'

Some time between her last being seen at the creche and the alarm being raised at around 10pm. David Payne's visit to the McCann apartment at around 6pm is important as corroboration that Madeleine was alive at that time. But the reason for his visit seems unclear and there are doubts it ever occurred. Mrs. McCann says it lasted 30 seconds and she was wearing a towel, having just taken a shower. But mothers generally don't take even a quick a shower out of sight and hearing of three very young children, especially since there was presumably no great urgency for her to do so. She could have waited for her husband to return.

Payne himself remembered the visit as lasting 30 minutes, but was vague as to what the children were wearing. This mix up between 30 seconds and 30 minutes sounds like a verbal miscommunication rather than a total misjudgement of time, leading to suspicion the visit was artificially constructed to confirm that Madeleine McCann was alive at a time when she was not.

[Sunny Delight]

The PK found nothing. There was the lack of fingerprint evidence but also no evidence anyone had been inside the apartment. The basis for this was that no lichen had been disturbed from the ledge outside, nor was there any evidence of anyone in contact with the bedding. This was apart from the fact the shutters had not been 'jemmied.'

Anyone who is still talking about windows is, embarrassingly, not familiar with the case. They are serving as a distraction.

The PJ didn't know their arse from their elbow and you are still peddling this which has been discredited since the files were released in 2009. The shutters and window could be opened from outside. The forensics was shoddy and haphazard- those brushing for evidence didn't even wear gloves or protective clothing. The shutters were not jemmied but Gerry in the initial hours felt they must have been because his assumption was they had been locked into place. They hadn't. His assumption was wrong. Are you stuck in a timewarp 2008/09 that you refuse to come out of?

[Darryl Kenyon]

The PK found nothing. There was the lack of fingerprint evidence but also no evidence anyone had been inside the apartment. The basis for this was that no lichen had been disturbed from the ledge outside, nor was there any evidence of anyone in contact with the bedding. This was apart from the fact the shutters had not been 'jemmied.'

Anyone who is still talking about windows is, embarrassingly, not familiar with the case. They are serving as a distraction.

Hi Cobalt
Thanks for the reply . Although I don't concur with your view on the abduction . The window evidence is interesting none the less

Regards Darryl

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I would like to hear from those who do not accept that Madeleine was abducted between 9.05 p.m. and 10 p.m. on 3 May 2007,
when approximately they think she really went missing.

[cobalt]

The PK found nothing. There was the lack of fingerprint evidence but also no evidence anyone had been inside the apartment. The basis for this was that no lichen had been disturbed from the ledge outside, nor was there any evidence of anyone in contact with the bedding. This was apart from the fact the shutters had not been 'jemmied.'

Anyone who is still talking about windows is, embarrassingly, not familiar with the case. They are serving as a distraction.

[Darryl Kenyon]

'Much easier for him to quickly come through the patio doors , snatch Madeline and straight out of the apartment via the window or patio doors'

Much easier if he came in by the patio doors to leave by them, surely. Why clamber out of a window carrying a child?
The PJ were satisfied that no one had entered or left through the window and I see no reason to doubt that.

Hi Cobalt
I have often wondered about the window evidence , or lack of. I know the fingerprint evidence only showed Kate Mcann's palm print on the glass it self . But I am wondering about the handle on the window [ if there was one ] . Gerry Mcann said he shut the window [ I am assuming by the handle ]. Did they test said handle and did it show anything ?

Regards Darryl

[Darryl Kenyon]

She may have been trained to a higher standard than the kidnapper was in the use of anaesthetics, but she was obviously less skilled in the art of how to abduct a child and convince everyone that she had not stored her in her refrigerator and then dumped her at sea.

What has that got to with me ? Your making it sound as if that is my theory

[cobalt]

'Much easier for him to quickly come through the patio doors , snatch Madeline and straight out of the apartment via the window or patio doors'

Much easier if he came in by the patio doors to leave by them, surely. Why clamber out of a window carrying a child?
The PJ were satisfied that no one had entered or left through the window and I see no reason to doubt that.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

One last point, Kate Mcann was trained to a high standard in anaesthetics.

She may have been trained to a higher standard than the kidnapper was in the use of anaesthetics, but she was obviously less skilled in the art of how to abduct a child and convince everyone that she had not stored her in her refrigerator and then dumped her at sea.

[Darryl Kenyon]

I am surprised you did not consider the possibility that the abductor gave Madeleine something to enable him to carry her away without attracting attention, especially as the man accused has been reported to have made a smug remark about Madeleine not having screamed.

He would also have to have given the twins something as well . How long do you think the abductor was in the apartment ? While he was administering a drug to one of the children another could have woke up. Much easier for him to quickly come through the patio doors , snatch Madeline and straight out of the apartment via the window or patio doors and straight into the car he probably had parked outside the children's bedroom window . Or as a less alternative into the apartment he had in that, or nearby complex.

One last point, Kate Mcann was trained to a high standard in anaesthetics.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Hi RJ

Is it beyond the bounds of possibility that the children were given a mild sedative to help or make [ depending on your point of view ],them sleep by one or both parents, which thus then enabled the abductor to carry Maddie away more easily , which the Mcann's may be in self denial about ? Not in my book it isn't.

I am surprised you did not consider the possibility that the abductor gave Madeleine something to enable him to carry her away without attracting attention, especially as the man accused has been reported to have made a smug remark about Madeleine not having screamed.