Madeleine McCann

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby,

While I agree that this would seem a possibility at first glance and for the reason you mention, I think there’s evidence to suggest that they didn’t invent it. In their initial phone calls to family members and friends they claimed the shutters had been “broken”/”jemmied”/”smashed” and the window “tampered with” or words to that effect. Why would they claim such a thing if they knew for a fact that nothing had happened to either the shutters or window because they had invented the story and the shutters and window had remained closed throughout the whole thing? It would be rather unthoughtful to tell such a tale. The way I see it, this suggests that they actually did find the shutters & window open.

Cheers,
Frank

hi frank
i see it completely the opposite way. they lied to police about the doors being locked and they lied to to others about the window.
and of course, the window wasnt jammed or broken or smashed was it?

the window stuff for whatever reason is an invention imho.

[FrankO]

i think the open window may have been staged by the mccaans because they were guilty anout leaving the place unlocked and initially lied to police saying it was locked, so had to invent the open window to explain how an intruder could have gotten into a locked apartment.

Hi Abby,

While I agree that this would seem a possibility at first glance and for the reason you mention, I think there’s evidence to suggest that they didn’t invent it. In their initial phone calls to family members and friends they claimed the shutters had been “broken”/”jemmied”/”smashed” and the window “tampered with” or words to that effect. Why would they claim such a thing if they knew for a fact that nothing had happened to either the shutters or window because they had invented the story and the shutters and window had remained closed throughout the whole thing? It would be rather unthoughtful to tell such a tale. The way I see it, this suggests that they actually did find the shutters & window open.

Cheers,
Frank

[FrankO]

Extremely difficult to get out of such a window carrying a child. You could hypothise that the perpetrator attempted this but abandoned it as impractical.

Hi Sunny,

Having had another & better look at photos of the bedroom window, inside and out, you may well be right in case it was a one man job. The open window seems to have have been narrow for that, maybe too narrow. It would, however, have been easy for two persons to do it: one who remained outside by the window and one who went inside by the terrace/back doors, going into the children’s room and then passed Madeleine on to the other person after lifting the shutters and opening the window. If they had a car parked at the front side of the apartment, they could be well on their way within a few minutes without anybody being any the wiser.

However I think there must be a link with the burglaries where entry through the windows was the modus operandi. It may well have been that this was a burglar who knew the complex well if he did come in through the window which seems to me the most likely scenario. You again could present a hypothesis whereby the perpetrator knew that once you lifted the shutters a little, if the window was unlocked you could slide it open and then maneuver the shutters up further from the inside. It could well be that the perpetrator was an opportunist in that he checked shutters and windows for such an eventuality and struck lucky on numerous occasions. It appears both the UK and German Police believe this to be likely hence the suspicion attached to Breuckner who was known as a petty thief.

Based on the fact that there was quite a number of witnesses who described having seen men hanging around near apartment 5A in the days before the disappearance and on the day itself, I’m more inclined to think it was a planned thing, either by one man or more. But I hope for the McCanns that Brückner leads them to the answers they seek.

Cheers,
Frank

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

So leaving three young children under the age of four in an unlocked apartment, an apartment in a foreign country , an apartment were the night before one of the children was crying for her Mummy , an apartment were Maddie could have wandered off from, looking for her Mummy or could have got out of bed and had an accident especially in unfamiliar surroundings , an apartment which was not clearly visible from were they were sat downing bottles of wine and I read or saw somewhere they were being a little boisterous. Well they may not have known about the break ins but acting reckless is beyond doubt .

Incidentally I don't believe the Mcanns were responsible for Maddie's disappearance but I also don't believe everything what they said . The police may have made a mess of the early investigation but to me the Mcann's must look at themselves regarding the muddying of the waters . Gerry apparently is quite cold with his emotions. I believe a sense of self preservation kicked in regarding the shutters, doors, possible sedation and I wouldn't be surprised if the half hour timings were more like now and then and guesstimates

If I may, I would like to refer you to retired police officer Tony Bartlett's opinion in answer to the question

Were Madeleine McCann's parents neglectful for leaving their children alone without an adult

[Sunny Delight]

If they were all sedating their children then the Tapas Seven cannot break ranks. Their farcical claim of checks, never known to any parents or even non doctors before or since, exists only in their own testimony. Nobody else ever saw them doing this. We have no evidence such checks ever took place. Therefore I conclude there were none.

No parent worth tuppence ever left a child under the age of seven unattended in an unlocked room. The McCanns claimed they did, and in the case of Gerry McCann is quite confident to explain to the rest of us plebs why this was good parenting.

I accept the MCanns left the children unattended. But I do not accept the claim that they left their children in an unlocked apartment. No one broke in. The answer lies within the Tapas Seven, as the PJ understood.

Then why did one of the Tapas 7 have a baby listening device at the table and why did one of them remain with a child who had woken up and been sick. There is zero evidence to suggest some sort of 'pact' between the parents. Goncalo Amarel came to that conclusion. It has since been utterly discredited. And discredited for a reason.

[Abby Normal]

I don't know what happened any better than you or anyone else. Same as the JFK. But the available evidence points to persons known to Madeleine McCann.

I will go no further than that, save to say that she was a loved child who was victim to an accident that took her life and also threatened the livelihood of her parents who had two other children to consider.

ok fair enough. thanks cobalt.

[Darryl Kenyon]

I did not actually get what cobalt meant by

The fact that they and friends of theirs were leaving their respective children unattended suggests that they were unaware of how dangerous what they were doing was and not that they were knowingly acting recklessly.

So leaving three young children under the age of four in an unlocked apartment, an apartment in a foreign country , an apartment were the night before one of the children was crying for her Mummy , an apartment were Maddie could have wandered off from, looking for her Mummy or could have got out of bed and had an accident especially in unfamiliar surroundings , an apartment which was not clearly visible from were they were sat downing bottles of wine and I read or saw somewhere they were being a little boisterous. Well they may not have known about the break ins but acting reckless is beyond doubt .

Incidentally I don't believe the Mcanns were responsible for Maddie's disappearance but I also don't believe everything what they said . The police may have made a mess of the early investigation but to me the Mcann's must look at themselves regarding the muddying of the waters . Gerry apparently is quite cold with his emotions. I believe a sense of self preservation kicked in regarding the shutters, doors, possible sedation and I wouldn't be surprised if the half hour timings were more like now and then and guesstimates

[jason_c]

If they were all sedating their children then the Tapas Seven cannot break ranks. Their farcical claim of checks, never known to any parents or even non doctors before or since, exists only in their own testimony. Nobody else ever saw them doing this. We have no evidence such checks ever took place. Therefore I conclude there were none.

No parent worth tuppence ever left a child under the age of seven unattended in an unlocked room. The McCanns claimed they did, and in the case of Gerry McCann is quite confident to explain to the rest of us plebs why this was good parenting.

I accept the MCanns left the children unattended. But I do not accept the claim that they left their children in an unlocked apartment. No one broke in. The answer lies within the Tapas Seven, as the PJ understood.

Yeah, the truthfulness or otherwise of the 7 gnaws at me too. The only way I can believe they are all lying is if most families(if not all)had a little extra help in keeping their kids quiet at night.

[cobalt]

I don't know what happened any better than you or anyone else. Same as the JFK. But the available evidence points to persons known to Madeleine McCann.

I will go no further than that, save to say that she was a loved child who was victim to an accident that took her life and also threatened the livelihood of her parents who had two other children to consider.

[Abby Normal]

If they were all sedating their children then the Tapas Seven cannot break ranks. Their farcical claim of checks, never known to any parents or even non doctors before or since, exists only in their own testimony. Nobody else ever saw them doing this. We have no evidence such checks ever took place. Therefore I conclude there were none.

No parent worth tuppence ever left a child under the age of seven unattended in an unlocked room. The McCanns claimed they did, and in the case of Gerry McCann is quite confident to explain to the rest of us plebs why this was good parenting.

I accept the MCanns left the children unattended. But I do not accept the claim that they left their children in an unlocked apartment. No one broke in. The answer lies within the Tapas Seven, as the PJ understood.

interesting. can you just tell me what you think actually happened?

[cobalt]

If they were all sedating their children then the Tapas Seven cannot break ranks. Their farcical claim of checks, never known to any parents or even non doctors before or since, exists only in their own testimony. Nobody else ever saw them doing this. We have no evidence such checks ever took place. Therefore I conclude there were none.

No parent worth tuppence ever left a child under the age of seven unattended in an unlocked room. The McCanns claimed they did, and in the case of Gerry McCann is quite confident to explain to the rest of us plebs why this was good parenting.

I accept the MCanns left the children unattended. But I do not accept the claim that they left their children in an unlocked apartment. No one broke in. The answer lies within the Tapas Seven, as the PJ understood.

[Abby Normal]

A lot of distraction going on here regarding shutters and windows. The PJ established the impossibility of an abductor entering this way at the time. Any sneak thief who was able, gymnastically, to worm his way through the shutters, must have been the worst thief in the area, since the patio door was open for his use. He was also a poor thief since he stole nothing of monetary value bit turned his attentions to the child. Since he escaped on foot, we can assume child abduction was not his original motive. That is quite a tale, but the one originally favoured by the McCanns.

These are the hard facts the PJ dealt with and they came to a much more reasonable conclusion. That the answer lay not with some phantom abductor, never seen, but the persons with access to the apartment. The answer, they believed, lay within the so-called 'Tapas Seven' whose obfuscation and memory loss was assessed in their interviews and judged accordingly. In short, the PJ suspected they all knew what happened but could not speak to it.

wow cobalt that alot of conspiracy going on there. while i can possibly see the help of one faithful tapas seven in the case of tje mcanns being guilty all seven is a bit of a stretch. with each additional one in case of the mcanns being guilty this impossibility goes up exponentially. i dont buy it. it would have to be like a real life version of Rosemarys Baby. too far fetched even for me. lol

but i agree re the window and blinds.. that part is def fiction imho.

[cobalt]

A lot of distraction going on here regarding shutters and windows. The PJ established the impossibility of an abductor entering this way at the time. Any sneak thief who was able, gymnastically, to worm his way through the shutters, must have been the worst thief in the area, since the patio door was open for his use. He was also a poor thief since he stole nothing of monetary value bit turned his attentions to the child. Since he escaped on foot, we can assume child abduction was not his original motive. That is quite a tale, but the one originally favoured by the McCanns.

These are the hard facts the PJ dealt with and they came to a much more reasonable conclusion. That the answer lay not with some phantom abductor, never seen, but the persons with access to the apartment. The answer, they believed, lay within the so-called 'Tapas Seven' whose obfuscation and memory loss was assessed in their interviews and judged accordingly. In short, the PJ suspected they all knew what happened but could not speak to it.

[Sunny Delight]

hi cobalt
the apartment wasnt locked. it was wide open. after initially telling the police it was locked, the mccans had to finally admit they left the doors unlocked to make it easier for everyone at the restuarant to check on the kids. verified by one, who actually did go to check on their kids.
hi Sunny
I doubt the abductor came through the window, he had probably scoped the place out and noticed the couples habit, and waltzed right in and out of the unlocked door. i think Maddies statement to her mom that morning might have been she was scared because the abductor was maybe their the night before, scoping the place out.
i think the open window may have been staged by the mccaans because they were guilty anout leaving the place unlocked and initially lied to police saying it was locked, so had to invent the open window to explain how an intruder could have gotten into a locked apartment. also, im sticking with the polices version that the blinds couldnt be opened from tje outside. they were right about no evidence of anyone coming through the window, and theyre probably right about the blinds. i remember seeing a picture of the blinds from the outside and it looked like heavy duty slats that were actually attached to the side of the building and its also common knowledge that these blinds had a mechanism on the inside to open and close. also the police say if you tried to force them from the outside it would be impossible without damaging them. the owner of the apartment probably had them installed because, as everyone says, all the locals knew of the amount of burglaries in the area. the window is a red herring either way.

Have you watched my link from the comment above? It clearly shows the PJ were mistaken or deliberately disengenuous. Technically you may not have been able to lift the shutters the whole way from outside. However as shown from the link you could open it enough to slide the inner window open and then reach your hand through to maneuver the rest from inside. That is without question and clearly proven.

Yes I accept your hypothesis in regards the perpetrator using the patio doors. They may have. In that scenario the perp then attempts to exit using the window but decides against it as impractical possibly rather than a deliberate staging from the McCanns. Who knows really. I like my theory but at the end of the day it's only a theory.

[Abby Normal]

Perhaps a useful clip taken soon after the event.

Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa, spokesman for the investigation, has confided in British former Chief Inspector Albert Kirby that neither the windows nor their shutters had been tampered with.

Albert Kirby

"I had a very interesting chat with the officer in charge. The window shutters are not an issue."

Confirming this, John Hill (resort manager) said that there was:

"no sign of a break in whatsoever"

Even the McCann's very own spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, finally conceded that:

“There was no evidence of a break-in"

This amazing U turn was covered in many newspapers:

Irish Independent

"Interestingly, Clarence Mitchell's statement about the McCanns reversal of their 'break in' story, came one week after Dispatches aired the documentary 'Searching For Madeleine' on 18 October 2007. In that documentary, it was effectively proved that there was no way anybody could break into the apartment and leave no forensic trace or damage to the lightweight aluminium shutters, which are covered with a fine coating of polyurethane paint which marks extremely easily."

So how did an "abductor" get into a locked apartment, take Madeleine from her bed, and make off into the night, without leaving a trace?

hi cobalt
the apartment wasnt locked. it was wide open. after initially telling the police it was locked, the mccans had to finally admit they left the doors unlocked to make it easier for everyone at the restuarant to check on the kids. verified by one, who actually did go to check on their kids.
hi Sunny
I doubt the abductor came through the window, he had probably scoped the place out and noticed the couples habit, and waltzed right in and out of the unlocked door. i think Maddies statement to her mom that morning might have been she was scared because the abductor was maybe their the night before, scoping the place out.
i think the open window may have been staged by the mccaans because they were guilty anout leaving the place unlocked and initially lied to police saying it was locked, so had to invent the open window to explain how an intruder could have gotten into a locked apartment. also, im sticking with the polices version that the blinds couldnt be opened from tje outside. they were right about no evidence of anyone coming through the window, and theyre probably right about the blinds. i remember seeing a picture of the blinds from the outside and it looked like heavy duty slats that were actually attached to the side of the building and its also common knowledge that these blinds had a mechanism on the inside to open and close. also the police say if you tried to force them from the outside it would be impossible without damaging them. the owner of the apartment probably had them installed because, as everyone says, all the locals knew of the amount of burglaries in the area. the window is a red herring either way.