Madeleine McCann

[Darryl Kenyon]

I did not actually get what cobalt meant by

The fact that they and friends of theirs were leaving their respective children unattended suggests that they were unaware of how dangerous what they were doing was and not that they were knowingly acting recklessly.

So leaving three young children under the age of four in an unlocked apartment, an apartment in a foreign country , an apartment were the night before one of the children was crying for her Mummy , an apartment were Maddie could have wandered off from, looking for her Mummy or could have got out of bed and had an accident especially in unfamiliar surroundings , an apartment which was not clearly visible from were they were sat downing bottles of wine and I read or saw somewhere they were being a little boisterous. Well they may not have known about the break ins but acting reckless is beyond doubt .

Incidentally I don't believe the Mcanns were responsible for Maddie's disappearance but I also don't believe everything what they said . The police may have made a mess of the early investigation but to me the Mcann's must look at themselves regarding the muddying of the waters . Gerry apparently is quite cold with his emotions. I believe a sense of self preservation kicked in regarding the shutters, doors, possible sedation and I wouldn't be surprised if the half hour timings were more like now and then and guesstimates

[jason_c]

If they were all sedating their children then the Tapas Seven cannot break ranks. Their farcical claim of checks, never known to any parents or even non doctors before or since, exists only in their own testimony. Nobody else ever saw them doing this. We have no evidence such checks ever took place. Therefore I conclude there were none.

No parent worth tuppence ever left a child under the age of seven unattended in an unlocked room. The McCanns claimed they did, and in the case of Gerry McCann is quite confident to explain to the rest of us plebs why this was good parenting.

I accept the MCanns left the children unattended. But I do not accept the claim that they left their children in an unlocked apartment. No one broke in. The answer lies within the Tapas Seven, as the PJ understood.

Yeah, the truthfulness or otherwise of the 7 gnaws at me too. The only way I can believe they are all lying is if most families(if not all)had a little extra help in keeping their kids quiet at night.

[cobalt]

I don't know what happened any better than you or anyone else. Same as the JFK. But the available evidence points to persons known to Madeleine McCann.

I will go no further than that, save to say that she was a loved child who was victim to an accident that took her life and also threatened the livelihood of her parents who had two other children to consider.

[Abby Normal]

If they were all sedating their children then the Tapas Seven cannot break ranks. Their farcical claim of checks, never known to any parents or even non doctors before or since, exists only in their own testimony. Nobody else ever saw them doing this. We have no evidence such checks ever took place. Therefore I conclude there were none.

No parent worth tuppence ever left a child under the age of seven unattended in an unlocked room. The McCanns claimed they did, and in the case of Gerry McCann is quite confident to explain to the rest of us plebs why this was good parenting.

I accept the MCanns left the children unattended. But I do not accept the claim that they left their children in an unlocked apartment. No one broke in. The answer lies within the Tapas Seven, as the PJ understood.

interesting. can you just tell me what you think actually happened?

[cobalt]

If they were all sedating their children then the Tapas Seven cannot break ranks. Their farcical claim of checks, never known to any parents or even non doctors before or since, exists only in their own testimony. Nobody else ever saw them doing this. We have no evidence such checks ever took place. Therefore I conclude there were none.

No parent worth tuppence ever left a child under the age of seven unattended in an unlocked room. The McCanns claimed they did, and in the case of Gerry McCann is quite confident to explain to the rest of us plebs why this was good parenting.

I accept the MCanns left the children unattended. But I do not accept the claim that they left their children in an unlocked apartment. No one broke in. The answer lies within the Tapas Seven, as the PJ understood.

[Abby Normal]

A lot of distraction going on here regarding shutters and windows. The PJ established the impossibility of an abductor entering this way at the time. Any sneak thief who was able, gymnastically, to worm his way through the shutters, must have been the worst thief in the area, since the patio door was open for his use. He was also a poor thief since he stole nothing of monetary value bit turned his attentions to the child. Since he escaped on foot, we can assume child abduction was not his original motive. That is quite a tale, but the one originally favoured by the McCanns.

These are the hard facts the PJ dealt with and they came to a much more reasonable conclusion. That the answer lay not with some phantom abductor, never seen, but the persons with access to the apartment. The answer, they believed, lay within the so-called 'Tapas Seven' whose obfuscation and memory loss was assessed in their interviews and judged accordingly. In short, the PJ suspected they all knew what happened but could not speak to it.

wow cobalt that alot of conspiracy going on there. while i can possibly see the help of one faithful tapas seven in the case of tje mcanns being guilty all seven is a bit of a stretch. with each additional one in case of the mcanns being guilty this impossibility goes up exponentially. i dont buy it. it would have to be like a real life version of Rosemarys Baby. too far fetched even for me. lol

but i agree re the window and blinds.. that part is def fiction imho.

[cobalt]

A lot of distraction going on here regarding shutters and windows. The PJ established the impossibility of an abductor entering this way at the time. Any sneak thief who was able, gymnastically, to worm his way through the shutters, must have been the worst thief in the area, since the patio door was open for his use. He was also a poor thief since he stole nothing of monetary value bit turned his attentions to the child. Since he escaped on foot, we can assume child abduction was not his original motive. That is quite a tale, but the one originally favoured by the McCanns.

These are the hard facts the PJ dealt with and they came to a much more reasonable conclusion. That the answer lay not with some phantom abductor, never seen, but the persons with access to the apartment. The answer, they believed, lay within the so-called 'Tapas Seven' whose obfuscation and memory loss was assessed in their interviews and judged accordingly. In short, the PJ suspected they all knew what happened but could not speak to it.

[Sunny Delight]

hi cobalt
the apartment wasnt locked. it was wide open. after initially telling the police it was locked, the mccans had to finally admit they left the doors unlocked to make it easier for everyone at the restuarant to check on the kids. verified by one, who actually did go to check on their kids.
hi Sunny
I doubt the abductor came through the window, he had probably scoped the place out and noticed the couples habit, and waltzed right in and out of the unlocked door. i think Maddies statement to her mom that morning might have been she was scared because the abductor was maybe their the night before, scoping the place out.
i think the open window may have been staged by the mccaans because they were guilty anout leaving the place unlocked and initially lied to police saying it was locked, so had to invent the open window to explain how an intruder could have gotten into a locked apartment. also, im sticking with the polices version that the blinds couldnt be opened from tje outside. they were right about no evidence of anyone coming through the window, and theyre probably right about the blinds. i remember seeing a picture of the blinds from the outside and it looked like heavy duty slats that were actually attached to the side of the building and its also common knowledge that these blinds had a mechanism on the inside to open and close. also the police say if you tried to force them from the outside it would be impossible without damaging them. the owner of the apartment probably had them installed because, as everyone says, all the locals knew of the amount of burglaries in the area. the window is a red herring either way.

Have you watched my link from the comment above? It clearly shows the PJ were mistaken or deliberately disengenuous. Technically you may not have been able to lift the shutters the whole way from outside. However as shown from the link you could open it enough to slide the inner window open and then reach your hand through to maneuver the rest from inside. That is without question and clearly proven.

Yes I accept your hypothesis in regards the perpetrator using the patio doors. They may have. In that scenario the perp then attempts to exit using the window but decides against it as impractical possibly rather than a deliberate staging from the McCanns. Who knows really. I like my theory but at the end of the day it's only a theory.

[Abby Normal]

Perhaps a useful clip taken soon after the event.

Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa, spokesman for the investigation, has confided in British former Chief Inspector Albert Kirby that neither the windows nor their shutters had been tampered with.

Albert Kirby

"I had a very interesting chat with the officer in charge. The window shutters are not an issue."

Confirming this, John Hill (resort manager) said that there was:

"no sign of a break in whatsoever"

Even the McCann's very own spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, finally conceded that:

“There was no evidence of a break-in"

This amazing U turn was covered in many newspapers:

Irish Independent

"Interestingly, Clarence Mitchell's statement about the McCanns reversal of their 'break in' story, came one week after Dispatches aired the documentary 'Searching For Madeleine' on 18 October 2007. In that documentary, it was effectively proved that there was no way anybody could break into the apartment and leave no forensic trace or damage to the lightweight aluminium shutters, which are covered with a fine coating of polyurethane paint which marks extremely easily."

So how did an "abductor" get into a locked apartment, take Madeleine from her bed, and make off into the night, without leaving a trace?

hi cobalt
the apartment wasnt locked. it was wide open. after initially telling the police it was locked, the mccans had to finally admit they left the doors unlocked to make it easier for everyone at the restuarant to check on the kids. verified by one, who actually did go to check on their kids.
hi Sunny
I doubt the abductor came through the window, he had probably scoped the place out and noticed the couples habit, and waltzed right in and out of the unlocked door. i think Maddies statement to her mom that morning might have been she was scared because the abductor was maybe their the night before, scoping the place out.
i think the open window may have been staged by the mccaans because they were guilty anout leaving the place unlocked and initially lied to police saying it was locked, so had to invent the open window to explain how an intruder could have gotten into a locked apartment. also, im sticking with the polices version that the blinds couldnt be opened from tje outside. they were right about no evidence of anyone coming through the window, and theyre probably right about the blinds. i remember seeing a picture of the blinds from the outside and it looked like heavy duty slats that were actually attached to the side of the building and its also common knowledge that these blinds had a mechanism on the inside to open and close. also the police say if you tried to force them from the outside it would be impossible without damaging them. the owner of the apartment probably had them installed because, as everyone says, all the locals knew of the amount of burglaries in the area. the window is a red herring either way.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I did not actually get what cobalt meant by

In fact it's not just the best lead in terms of an abductor, it's the only lead. Much of the information available points in another direction.

I do agree with Sunny Delight that there is nothing to suggest that the McCanns knew of the dangers.

The fact that they and friends of theirs were leaving their respective children unattended suggests that they were unaware of how dangerous what they were doing was and not that they were knowingly acting recklessly.

[Sunny Delight]

What if he, wearing gloves and perhaps putting on a cap of sorts going in, came in through the patio doors that were left unlocked and exited through the window (that way excluding the risk of being seen by the McCanns, their friends or anybody else on that side of the appartments)?

Extremely difficult to get out of such a window carrying a child. You could hypothise that the perpetrator attempted this but abandoned it as impractical. However I think there must be a link with the burglaries where entry through the windows was the modus operandi. It may well have been that this was a burglar who knew the complex well if he did come in through the window which seems to me the most likely scenario. You again could present a hypothesis whereby the perpetrator knew that once you lifted the shutters a little, if the window was unlocked you could slide it open and then maneuver the shutters up further from the inside. It could well be that the perpetrator was an opportunist in that he checked shutters and windows for such an eventuality and struck lucky on numerous occasions. It appears both the UK and German Police believe this to be likely hence the suspicion attached to Breuckner who was known as a petty thief.

I think the whole episode could have been over in less than say 3 minutes if it was a spur of the moment opportunist who decided to take Madeleine in that instance. It is also to my mind most likely that the perpetrator leaves via the bedroom leaving the door half open and exits out the front of the apartment.

[FrankO]

So how did an "abductor" get into a locked apartment, take Madeleine from her bed, and make off into the night, without leaving a trace?

What if he, wearing gloves and perhaps putting on a cap of sorts going in, came in through the patio doors that were left unlocked and exited through the window (that way excluding the risk of being seen by the McCanns, their friends or anybody else on that side of the appartments)?

[Sunny Delight]

You have zero evidence anyone was aware of the burglaries. It would be quite astounding if a resort you arrived at began laying out how many burglaries there had been or emailed you beforehand.

Too many strawmen there. Anywhere I have travelled in Europe there is usually a note somewhere in the apartment reminding guests to be careful about security and to use any safe for documents and money. Once you speak to other guests/locals in the nearest cafe/bar you will often be helpfully reminded about any problems that have occurred with theft or pickpockets. Mrs. Fenn, as a long term resident, would obviously have been one person aware of burglaries in the complex. Staff likewise would have a duty to remind guests to keep their rooms locked. So why didn't the McCanns?

I don't know how many times you have to be told that the shutters opened from outside. The claim that they did not has been proven to be false or at best misleading.

I am happy to take the PJ's verdict on the shutters until a more convincing one appears.

I don't believe the Smith's sighting is definitely an abductor with Madeleine McCann but at this moment it is the best lead.

In fact it's not just the best lead in terms of an abductor, it's the only lead. Much of the information available points in another direction.

No one has ever claimed- even the Police- that the McCanns and others were aware of the burglaries at the complex. The Ocean Club had an excellent reputation as a Mark Warner establishment. This can be seen by the people staying at the hotel- doctors and cardiologists. This was upmarket. There is no proof anyone was aware of the fact this was a hotbed for burglaries. No staff ever relayed concerns to the guests as far as can be ascertained and were even so complacent as to jot on the Tapas booking that the apartments would be empty at the certain times and the children alone. Your whole post is based on assumptions.

Much of the available evidence points in another direction? So you just refuse point blank to listen to anyone and are still stuck in the 2008 discredited theories of the PJ. Even the PJ are embarrassed by what happened then such was the complete mess they made.

[Sunny Delight]

Perhaps a useful clip taken soon after the event.

Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa, spokesman for the investigation, has confided in British former Chief Inspector Albert Kirby that neither the windows nor their shutters had been tampered with.

Albert Kirby

"I had a very interesting chat with the officer in charge. The window shutters are not an issue."

Confirming this, John Hill (resort manager) said that there was:

"no sign of a break in whatsoever"

Even the McCann's very own spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, finally conceded that:

“There was no evidence of a break-in"

This amazing U turn was covered in many newspapers:

Irish Independent

"Interestingly, Clarence Mitchell's statement about the McCanns reversal of their 'break in' story, came one week after Dispatches aired the documentary 'Searching For Madeleine' on 18 October 2007. In that documentary, it was effectively proved that there was no way anybody could break into the apartment and leave no forensic trace or damage to the lightweight aluminium shutters, which are covered with a fine coating of polyurethane paint which marks extremely easily."

So how did an "abductor" get into a locked apartment, take Madeleine from her bed, and make off into the night, without leaving a trace?

The PJ were wrong and have been proven to be wrong.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E-T4K1n30wE&pp=ygURSGVyZWJlcnRvIGphbm9zY2g%3D

I rewatched the Dispatches recently. That team did not have access to the actual shutters and were basing their hypothesis on television pictures of forensics being carried out on them. They did not have the full picture. Excellent documentary nonetheless. An abductor entered through the window. He was careful to not leave any forensics or as little as possible as this was a burglary. Maybe gloved. Enters the bedroom and just like the Aleisha McPhail case sees an opportunity. Takes Madeleine from her bed. The poor little thing was probably exhausted and in a deep sleep. Opens the bedroom door leaving it half open and then walks out the front door. If burglary was the aim he would likely have been on foot so he leaves the apartment and travels on foot. He is then seen by the Smith's. Others too may have seen him but did not place any significance to the sighting. This to my mind is a likely hypothesis.

[cobalt]

Perhaps a useful clip taken soon after the event.

Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa, spokesman for the investigation, has confided in British former Chief Inspector Albert Kirby that neither the windows nor their shutters had been tampered with.

Albert Kirby

"I had a very interesting chat with the officer in charge. The window shutters are not an issue."

Confirming this, John Hill (resort manager) said that there was:

"no sign of a break in whatsoever"

Even the McCann's very own spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, finally conceded that:

“There was no evidence of a break-in"

This amazing U turn was covered in many newspapers:

Irish Independent

"Interestingly, Clarence Mitchell's statement about the McCanns reversal of their 'break in' story, came one week after Dispatches aired the documentary 'Searching For Madeleine' on 18 October 2007. In that documentary, it was effectively proved that there was no way anybody could break into the apartment and leave no forensic trace or damage to the lightweight aluminium shutters, which are covered with a fine coating of polyurethane paint which marks extremely easily."

So how did an "abductor" get into a locked apartment, take Madeleine from her bed, and make off into the night, without leaving a trace?