When Flying Saucers Attack!

[sdreid]

Hi Jeff,

Good that you're doing fine and don't need that operation. I'm good except I caught a dose of poison ivy this week while out clearing some brush from my fences. It was in a nearly circular pattern when it first broke out so the first thing I thought of was Lyme Disease. I'm pretty sure that it isn't that now. It just has to run its course.

I finished going through about 40,000 of the newest movies on IMDb and sent the ones I found that were based on actual serial killers off to that one site. I've found 301 for her although she only has about 276 of them posted at the present along with some 56 she's gotten from other sources.

[plang]

Hi all,
Time to throw in another event of first-hand witness. In 1995 I had a lease on a penthouse suit overlooking the Fraser River to the south and a parkland reserve to the north, on the outskirts of S.E. Vancouver,B.C. One summer night, I was awoken by this humming sound coming from the hilltop in the parkland. Looking from the sundeck there was strange light and whirring sounds coming from an area where there are no roads or pathways. I observed it for quite some time wondering what on earth it was,then went back to sleep.
The next morning I went for a walk through the parkland, as I often did, and decided to wander off the path to the area where this mysterious 'light and sound' was coming from. The trees and brush were quite thick and no sign of disturbance,yet suddenly I came across a patch of open ground with a very distinct circle of flattened and scorched underbrush. An estimate would be about 12 meters in diameter. The circle was blackened from obvious extreme heat. After observing the surrounding area to see if any vehicles or anything could have made it's way in , that was impossible. The only way something could have caused it would be from the sky. Not a chance it was a helicopter, it's blades would not possibly clear the trees. This is the first time I've mentioned it to 'anyone' but for one person who is no longer with us.

[Celesta]

Hi Jeff,

No encounters with strange creatures? Ha! What about me?!

We're glad to know you are doing so well. Didn't mean to apply any pressure.

When you shop for your historic documents, do you go to auctions and shops, and the like? I've started collecting old prints, maps, and postcards, but they are generally from ebay.

Take care,

Celesta

[Mike Covell]

Jeff, I am glad your ok, we were all a little worried there!

Plang, that sounds fascinating, a visual sighting, followed by actual trace evidence, rules out swamp gas, weather balloon and hedgehogs involved in a love ritual (all of these are examples by sceptics)

I finally got my copy of Melvin Harris's "Investigating the Unexplained" this morning, not had chance to read it yet as I have been on a research trip into the town centre!

Looks good though, there is an article about JTR in there, looking at Lee's and his abilities!!

Take care all

[Celesta]

Hi all,
Time to throw in another event of first-hand witness. In 1995 I had a lease on a penthouse suit overlooking the Fraser River to the south and a parkland reserve to the north, on the outskirts of S.E. Vancouver,B.C. One summer night, I was awoken by this humming sound coming from the hilltop in the parkland. Looking from the sundeck there was strange light and whirring sounds coming from an area where there are no roads or pathways. I observed it for quite some time wondering what on earth it was,then went back to sleep.
The next morning I went for a walk through the parkland, as I often did, and decided to wander off the path to the area where this mysterious 'light and sound' was coming from. The trees and brush were quite thick and no sign of disturbance,yet suddenly I came across a patch of open ground with a very distinct circle of flattened and scorched underbrush. An estimate would be about 12 meters in diameter. The circle was blackened from obvious extreme heat. After observing the surrounding area to see if any vehicles or anything could have made it's way in , that was impossible. The only way something could have caused it would be from the sky. Not a chance it was a helicopter, it's blades would not possibly clear the trees. This is the first time I've mentioned it to 'anyone' but for one person who is no longer with us.

Ah ha! I knew you had some stories tucked away! Plang, this does sound interesting, esp. as the area was so enclosed. What natural phenomenon could cause this? A meteorite would leave a depression and not just a charred circle. This reminds me of the story the woman in the bookstore told me about her father's soybean field. There they found a series of three boreholes arranged in a triangular shape and fused soil. The whirring sound certainly sounds like something mechanical or motor-driven. What was the light like? And how far away from the spot was the penthouse?

[Mike Covell]

I just wanna know what Plang was doing in a Penthouse????

[plang]

O.k, What I told you is the absolute truth. I did not go around all excited telling everyone. I kept it to myself for fear of being ridiculed. I still wonder at this moment what on earth caused it. The only time I mentioned it was quite some time later to my mother at the dinner table.
At the time, I was in my mid. 30's and going through 'mid-life' crises in my mind. Had this 70 Olds W-30 442 fully restored and a penthouse suite, top floor, overlooking the Fraser River to the south (Richmond), and Fraserview Golf Course to the N.W. and on the other side of Kerr St. to the N.E. is the parkland reserve. If you have Google Earth, it is at S.E. Marine Drive and Kerr St., Vancouver, B.C. Really, at that time in life ,so what, saw a UFO, had other interests.

[Mayerling]

Hi Jeff,

No encounters with strange creatures? Ha! What about me?!

We're glad to know you are doing so well. Didn't mean to apply any pressure.

When you shop for your historic documents, do you go to auctions and shops, and the like? I've started collecting old prints, maps, and postcards, but they are generally from ebay.

Take care,

Celesta

Hi Stan, Mike, Celesta, and Plang,

I have to admit that Plang's experience makes me jealous in two ways - he had an actual experience, and I've never been invited to (let alone lived in a some point) a penthouse!!

In answer to your question Celesta, I live near Manhattan, and use one particular place for my collection of autographs. If you contact me in private by e-mail I'll tell you (I don't want to build up competition for it, but I'd explain it to you in private). I sometimes collect postcards - my best one is a turn of the 20th Century one showing a well-known photograph of Teddy Roosevelt and his family but it has been colored. The place I go to is also in Manhattan - but I bought it impulsively (it is too easy to spend money on them - I spent nearly forty dollars on almost 40 cards). Most of the cards I bought were of old sites in New York, many of which are no longer standing, like the old Astor Hotel near Time Square (not the Waldorf - Astoria).

Stan - I have to hand it to you to look over 40,000 film titles. It sounds really incredible. Good luck with your final list.

Mike - On the whole I am doing well (back pain aside - I need a new matress), but I really feel better that I do not have to go through that laporectomy. I am so tired of operations.

Best wishes,

Jeff

[Mike Covell]

Stan, if you want to look over 40,000 film titles you could have come to my place!!

Plang, When you saw it what feelings did you have?

I have seen several different "Things" and have experienced a whole range of feelings, I once saw a flying triangle come so low, it terrified me, i mean i was crying!! It performed moves I have never seen before and flew of, when the tears turned to joy!!

Jeff, glad your ok, I have a heart scan, and 24 hour ECG booked for the end of this month!! I can never sleep with the things on!

[Celesta]

Hi Jeff,

That is very kind of you. I didn't mean to horn in on your source. What I was wondering was whether you went out to shop for these items. There aren't many of those sorts of shops here and certainly none are very handy to get to. I generally rely on the internet. I imagine it's a different situation up in NY. I almost bid on one of the Roosevelt family PCs, but backed off, in the end, because I found one of Evelyn Nesbit that I wanted more. I don't think I have seen the colorized version. Is this the card, where TR is sitting on the left?

I have been reading When the Astors Owned New York. I'm about to the point where Colonel Astor makes his fateful Titanic voyage. I've tried to find cards of the Astor Hotel and others in the lot but had no real luck. The Astor you refer to is the one that the Waldorf later became connected to? Or the old one that preceded it?

You are absolutely right. You can spend a lot on these things in a short time.

Once again, thanks. I don't want to be a competitor for items you are trying to get! I'll be in touch though, and if I see something you might want, I'll let you know about it.

Celesta

[Celesta]

O.k, What I told you is the absolute truth. I did not go around all excited telling everyone. I kept it to myself for fear of being ridiculed. I still wonder at this moment what on earth caused it. The only time I mentioned it was quite some time later to my mother at the dinner table.
At the time, I was in my mid. 30's and going through 'mid-life' crises in my mind. Had this 70 Olds W-30 442 fully restored and a penthouse suite, top floor, overlooking the Fraser River to the south (Richmond), and Fraserview Golf Course to the N.W. and on the other side of Kerr St. to the N.E. is the parkland reserve. If you have Google Earth, it is at S.E. Marine Drive and Kerr St., Vancouver, B.C. Really, at that time in life ,so what, saw a UFO, had other interests.

I googlyed the spot. No doubt the area has undergone more development since you lived there. You're talking about the park to the right of the golf course. I imagine it would have been fairly dark, and, as most golf courses are dark at night, it would have been particularly dark on that side. I don't know what you could have seen. It had to be creepy as hell.

[Magpie]

Actually I got good news - my regular doctor said I do not need the laparectomy, as my gall bladder (aside from some slight scaring) is not riddled with stones. Actually I have been feeling better there.

Good news, Jeff!

Remember--keep an eye on the cholesterol and drink lots of apple juice to keep that gallbladder ticking over!

[Mayerling]

Jeff, glad your ok, I have a heart scan, and 24 hour ECG booked for the end of this month!! I can never sleep with the things on!

Hi Mike,

You have my deepest wishes for a speedy conclusion to your own medical problems. It does become quite a drag.

I am still trying to think of something outrageous that I can say I did witness, but it is impossible. I remember Ambrose Bierce, in THE DEVIL'S DICTIONARY, talking about spontaneous generation or something along those lines ending his comment - definintion by saying, "And I even once saw a man come out of a cellar."

Best wishes,

Jeff

[Mayerling]

Good news, Jeff!

Remember--keep an eye on the cholesterol and drink lots of apple juice to keep that gallbladder ticking over!

Hi Magpie,

I'll try to follow the suggestion about cholesterol. As for apple juice, I can drink it occasionally but I'm more partial to cranberry juice (mixed with grape juice or blueberry juice). Forget pomergranate juice - I had my full of that last summer and fall.

Best wishes,

Jeff

[Mayerling]

Hi Jeff,

That is very kind of you. I didn't mean to horn in on your source. What I was wondering was whether you went out to shop for these items. There aren't many of those sorts of shops here and certainly none are very handy to get to. I generally rely on the internet. I imagine it's a different situation up in NY. I almost bid on one of the Roosevelt family PCs, but backed off, in the end, because I found one of Evelyn Nesbit that I wanted more. I don't think I have seen the colorized version. Is this the card, where TR is sitting on the left?

I have been reading When the Astors Owned New York. I'm about to the point where Colonel Astor makes his fateful Titanic voyage. I've tried to find cards of the Astor Hotel and others in the lot but had no real luck. The Astor you refer to is the one that the Waldorf later became connected to? Or the old one that preceded it?

You are absolutely right. You can spend a lot on these things in a short time.

Once again, thanks. I don't want to be a competitor for items you are trying to get! I'll be in touch though, and if I see something you might want, I'll let you know about it.

Celesta

Hi Celesta,

You are not really horning in - I can mention the place to a few people, and there would be no problem, but this web site is well attended, and it would be giving away a trade secret. I will say this - the place I use is a trifle slipshod on their methods of evaluating and classifying their documents. I've caught them on two, and brought them to their attention. If you or anyone else are interested feel free to e-mail me personally, but due to this tendency of theirs, if you are (like me...and many of your) a history buff, you can find certain docurments that are worth more than they price them for.

You got an Evelyn Nesbit post card? She certainly is attractive enough (as a young woman - booze destroyed her looks in old age) to be on any card or photograph. The T.R. card I got shows him seated on the lawn at Sagamore Hill next to his second wife Edith Carow, and surrounded by their five children and his oldest child (by his first wife Alice Lee) "Princess" Alice (later Alice Roosevelt Longworth, wife of the Republican Speaker of the House). It usually appears as a black and white photograph, but this one is nicely colored. The other old card that I purchased were used, and sometimes have interesting color of another type. One from 1903 mentioned that the visitor went to see a big Broadway success of that year, Leo Fall's operetta
THE PRINCE OF PILSEN. I notice the postage stamps of the back (one cent
green Franklin stamps or two cent red-carnation Washingtons). Sometimes another stamp will pop up, like one from one of the expositions and world fairs that occurred so frequently back them. I have one or two Canadian ones too.

The Astor Family fortune was based (after 1848) just on their real estate holdings in Manhattan - it made them one of the five richest families in the U.S. Now this is confusing: The Astor Hotel I mentioned in the earlier comment was on Time Square and 42nd Street. As a kid I saw it on walks with my family in the theater district (once I remember going to a Chinese Restaurant with my family off Time Square near the hotel at Christmas Time in 1962). It was torn down a few years later. The hotel called the Waldorf - Astoria was originally the Waldorf Hotel (built by William Waldorf Astor) and the next door Astoria (owned by Col. John Jacob Astor IV). The two cousins hated each other, but business is business, so they agreed to connect their hotels into the most luxurious one in the world, the first Waldorf-Astoria. This was in the early 1890s. It's location was interesting: Fifth Avenue and 34th Street. This is really the beginning of the hub of the central, fashionable part of Manhattan that reaches into the 90s or so on the East and West side. Oddly enough though, it was associated (earlier in the 19th Century) with the home of the notorious Madame Restell, New York's leading abortionist until her suicide there in 1878. The house was called, rather crassly, "the house built on baby skulls". The newly reconstructed Waldorf-Astoria was the one made famous by the cook "Oscar of the Waldorf". It's President/Manager, Mr. George Boldt, would use his wealth to build "Boldt's Castle" up in the Thousand Islands. It was a model for gilded aged wealth and austentation.

In 1928 the old Waldorf - Astoria was sold, and a new one (the current one) was built on Lexington Avenue and 50th Street on the East Side. It saved some of the items from the older hotel (such as an ornate, gothic, clock that is in the main room and has sculptured busts of Presidents Benjamin Harrison and Grover Cleveland on it. As for the land back at 5th Avenue and 34th Street, it was put to good use. It became the site of the Empire State Building (which it is to this day).

Col. Astor, as you know, was the man who was killed on the Titanic (not drowned or frozen - he was crushed by the falling of one of the smokestacks). His second wife was in a lifeboat, and was pregnant with his second son, John Jacob V. His older son, Vincent, would be the man who married the late Brooke Astor.

William Waldorf Astor was (from what I've read of him) a total snob and anglophile. He moved to England, and associated with such high class types as Jennie Jerome Churchill (Lord Randolph's widow, and mother of Winston).
His son was the one who married the Virginian lady who became Lady Nancy Astor, the first woman elected to the House of Commons.

Let me know if you are looking for anything too. I have not seen any documents of Stannie White (mostly dealing with architecture I guess). As
for Thaw...could he write? Yeah, he had too. He wrote a book about Evelyn called "THE TRAITOR". You can imagine what it's like.

Best wishes,

Jeff