JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

Because it worked? Same as Ali chose a highly 'incompetent' tactic to defeat Foreman in Zaire.

A stupid plan is still stupid even if it works. (Ali's plan was not stupid, it countered Foreman's strength and exploited his weak point.)

Why would a competent Conspiracy choose Dealey Plaza over Ft Worth? Ft Worth has at least as good concealment, more distracted security, no need to lead the target, much more time to aim, a clearer field of fire, and easier escape.

[Fiver]

Having actually been to Dealy Plaza and actually stood in these spots what struck me the most were the angles and distances. As a recreational gun user with a .22 rifle with scope ( FBI registered) I would classify these shots as " professional ". These were not unprofessional shots by any stretch of any imagination. Even with a misaligned scope the head shot was not random. You would expect randomness in this case with Oswald because 1) he was out of practice with a rifle ( you don't just pick up a rifle and fire it...especially at a President. And there is no proof he practiced). 2) The Carcano firing a 6.5 mm round would have kicked adding to the complication of precision and timing. But the government will have you believe...anyone could make those shots with a scope. Even with randomness as a factor. Even by someone who at best achieved Marksmanship over 5 years earlier when practice was daily.

CBS News proved it could be done in 1967.

[Fiver]

The Plaza is a perfect kill zone so this Fact only adds to the problem of trust in any search for how it was done and whether Kennedy was professionally assassinated.

The Plaza is a poor kill zone. The target was moving. Shots from the TSBD or the Daltex were partially obscured by trees. Shots from the Grassy Knoll were obscured by trees, the sign, the stone wall, and the crowds lining the street.

[Fiver]

Why did the motorcade go down Elm and just head straight fo the Freeway and Trade Mart.

Heading down Elm was the way to go if you wanted to get onto the Stemmons Freeway. Main Street did not connect to the Freeway.

[Patrick Differ]

Take a trip there Fiver and then tell us it's a poor kill zone.
High Buildings with open windows on 2 sides alone made it so.
I guess if CBS proves something it must be true.

[Herlock Sholmes]

There then follows a list of strawmen, ripe for burning.

It has been pointed out on numerous occasions that the lone gunman theory is a figment of the WC imagination and no more. The assassins in Dealey Plaza set out to kill the POTUS and they succeeded. Why on earth would they care about photographs of the Grassy Knoll or direction of bullets? All they needed was a link to Cuba (Oswald) and a rifle on the 6th floor.

Johnson partly scuppered their plans by steering the lone gunman theory which, in its WC form, depoliticised the crime.

You can’t possibly believe that Cobalt.

You expect everyone to believe that these conspirators took a kind of “hey-Ho, if we get caught out we get caught out who cares” approach then it’s impossible to respond to. Anything can mean anything.

There was no conspiracy. It’s too childish for words.

One disaffected man took his own gun and shot Kennedy. His name was Oswald. He was arrested. The evidence made him the guiltiest criminal in the history of crime. Ruby shot him. Who cares. He murdered Kennedy’s and Tippit. Oswald was a lowlife traitor who deserved the electric chair.

[Herlock Sholmes]

No one needed a ‘kill zone.’ If someone wanted the President dead all they needed to do was to find a good enough marksman and provide him with the best available weapon ( surely not difficult for conspirators that had influence in the CIA, the FBI, the Secret Service, the Military, the police and the medical profession) There is no law that says that assassinations can only occur in Dallas as far as I’m aware so they had their choice of locations and buildings (not difficult for these kind of conspirators that can manage the odd government overthrow or two)

Man in room, car waiting out back, bang, leave building and get into care.

Simples. That they would have instead elected to have gone for an insanely risky, nightmarishly complicated, reliant on luck plan which required more actions post-assassination than were required in the planning of the D-Day landings just can’t be taken seriously. The moon isn’t a spaceship, the Royal Family aren’t shape-shifting aliens and the world isn’t run by mice.

[Fiver]

The answer became obvious in a classic Crossfire arrangement in Daltek, Book Depository and Grassy Knoll. Or at least it became an obvious point of any conspiracy theory of who. Who benefited? That answer became obvious- LBJ, Hoover, CIA, MOB and the Companies who feed the Military Industrial Complex.

Most of those organizations would benefit by betraying the others and most would gain nothing from JFK's death. The Conspiracy also requires the Dallas Police, JFK's personal physician, the US Navy, and dozens of politicians, lawyers, forensics experts, and random civilians who weren't part of any of those organizations. The Conspiracy you describe is too big to succeed.

Setting up a crossfire is great if you want to ensure the target is dead and don't care if everyone knows it was a Conspiracy. Using multiple gunmen is incredibly stupid if you want to frame an individual. You have to keep all the added gunmen from being heard, spotted, or filmed as well as extracting the gunmen, the rifles, and all of the ejected shells. You have to fake eyewitness testimony, photographic evidence, handwriting evidence, fiber evidence, and fingerprint evidence well enough that they will fool techniques that hadn't been invented yet. You have to pray that no extra bullets are found and that all bullets that miss do not hit anyone outside the limo.

Or you could have one skilled gunman with a better rifle.

[Patrick Differ]

I don't believe any of the Doctors at Parkland or Bethesda would disagree that Kennedy suffered a massive head wound.
The Parkland Doctors only had the body for 20 minutes surrounded by chaos. Until a fight broke out over control of the body. I cant imagine that they didnt know he was DOA.

Humes had the body for less than 3 hours and his Autopsy is considered Incomplete by the HCSA. He said he was pressured. Unfortunately he decided not to trace the bullet from the back to the neck. This led to the Single Bullet theory but not necessarily on evidence since Humes failed to complete the step. That is just a fact.

Unfortunately the Parkland Doctors thought the neck wound was an entrance room and they described it as a 1/4 inch round hole. They did not describe it any other way.

This is where angles and geometry and physics matter. It is also where advances in technology matter if there is a desire to explore what Humes did not. The actual path of the bullets. Humes, in fact, was unhappy when he learned the sketches created for his testimony were not based on Autopsy xrays. The sketch artist did not have access.

The first issue with the Single Bullet, the result of Humes not taking the step, is alignment in the car between Kennedy and Connally. They are in line across the horizontal plane of the car door. However, the 6th floor is 6 stories up on the vertical and another 60 feet on the horizontal from the edge of the Book Depository. So the shooter is pointing down on the target and to the left at an acute angle with the car travelling 11 mph.

The bullet strikes Kennedy in the back below and to the right of the exit wound. According to Humes sketches. The bullet is in alignment anatomically how? The entrance wound is offset by at least 2 inches to the right of the exit and then exits as a round hole.?

The bullet then manages to hit Connallys under his right armpit. With Connally sitting directly in front of Kennedy on a horizontal plane? If the bullet exited Kennedy out the throat continuing downward it would hit Connally in the back. Connally would need to be 10 inches to Kennedys left to make this work! The sketches Humes used in his testimony were not based on evidence. Even if Kennedy were aligned perfectly along a vertical plane with the 6th floor, the Connally armpit does not work because the Zapruder film proves the alignment.

So the public is asked to believe in Single bullet perfect alignment theory when there was no perfect alignment whatsoever.

The problem I have with the head shot is basic physics and the debis field. The film I sight was the one Geraldo Rivera showed to the public for the first time in 1975. That was 12 years later.
Their reaction was the same as everyone else the first time and without any other knowledge you see a head explode in the front and snapped back and to the left. The film shows no explosion or spark in the back of the head eventhoughit hits bone, but there is a hole in the back. In this case though it fragments into pieces as large as 1/4 inch. Geraldo and Godfrey Cambridge see and say the same thing - the neck and head shots are entrance wounds.

The head shot can be explained by Newton which is also satisfied by the path of the debris field, up and to the left and back. At least that is what the Zapruder film shows in the frames 313 and several more.

However the WC, based on sketches not based on evidence which Humes admits.

Was the head shot basic physics or was it something else? Neck muscles, brain compression, goat experiments?

I would like to see the rebuttal of the science portion with alignments and physics and not subjective WC testimony They were incomplete.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The HSCA confirmed the autopsy results. They only went with a ‘conspiracy’ verdict due to the dodgy dictabelt recording. Now we know that those sound recordings are nonsense the HSCA would have undoubtedly gone for a Lone Gunman.

The opinions of the Parklands doctors on wounds are entirely irrelevant. The opinions that count are the pathologists. That’s how it works.

The single bullet is a fact not a theory. Conspiracy theorists have a vanishing bullet which they can’t explain.

17 pathologists confirmed all shots from the rear. Why are people still arguing? They are wrong. There should be no discussion. Humes, Boswell, Finck…shots from behind…confirmed by photographs…confirmed by x-rays…confirmed by the Zapruder film. I think that any author that writes about conspiracy should be sued for Libel or defamation of character. It’s time this vindictive campaign of lies ended. The world has humoured conspiracy authors for far too long. Groden, Lane, Garrison, Livingston, Stone. All complete charlatans. Roger Craig, Beverly Oliver, Ed Hoffman, Gordon Turner, Roger Craig all liars. Not mistaken…liars.

How anyone can take a pro-conspiracy standpoint utterly beggars belief.

[Fiver]

The other angle would be from a perch on the 6th floor to Kennedys head and back/throat exit to Connally for a total of 7 entrances and 7 exits, including bone but somehow comes out pristine. Unlike the same jacketed bullet that hits the head that fragments into pieces no larger than a quarter of an inch and most 1 or 2 millimeters in size.

Where do you get 7 entrances and 7 exits? The Single Bullet inflicted 4 wounds - JFK's neck, Connally's chest, Connally's wrist, and Connaly's thigh. It's not pristine, either, and neutron scanning done years later matched the stretcher billet to the fragments found in Connally's wrist.

As to why the bullet to the head shattered, lets look at the testimony of a Parkland Doctor.

As to Mr. SPECTER - What definition of "tangential" did you make at that time?
Dr. CLARK - As I remember, I defined the word "tangential" as being---striking an object obliquely, not squarely or head on.
Mr. SPECTER - Will you describe at this time in somewhat greater detail the consequences of a tangential wound as contrasted with another type of a striking?
Dr. CLARK - Let me begin by saying that the damage suffered by an organ when struck by a bullet or other missile---
Mr. SPECTER - May the record show that I interrupted the deposition for about 2 minutes to ascertain what our afternoon schedule would be here because the regular administration office ordinarily closes at 12 o'clock, which was just about 15 minutes ago, and then we resumed the deposition of Dr. Clark as he was discussing the concept of tangential and other types of striking. Go ahead, Doctor.
Dr. CLARK - The effects of any missile striking an organ or a function of the energy which is shed by the missile in passing through this organ when a bullet strikes the head, if it is able to pass through rapidly without shedding any energy into the brain, little damage results, other than that part of the brain which is directly penetrated by the missile. However, if it strikes the skull at an angle, it must then penetrate much more bone than normal, therefore, is likely to shed more energy, striking the brain a more powerful blow. Secondly, in striking the bone in this manner, it may cause pieces of the bone to be blown into the brain and thus act as secondary missiles. Finally, the bullet itself may be deformed and deflected so that it would go through or penetrate parts of the brain, not in the usual direct line it was proceeding.
Mr. SPECTER - Now, referring back to the press conference, did you define a tangential wound at that time?
Dr. CLARK - Yes.

As to the stretcher bullet, it would have passed through the soft tissue of JFK's neck. Testing has shown this would result in a slowed down, tumbling bullet, which if was at the correct angle when it struck Connally, would act and appear in a manner similar to the stretcher bullet.

[Patrick Differ]

The 7 entrances and exits include the clothing as a layer. I guess you can discount the clothing but it is still considered a layer of resistance and that's how it I'd described.

Geometry, Angles, Physics ??

[FISHY1118]

The single bullet is a theory not a fact .


A very poor one at that .

[FISHY1118]

And Alex Jones believed that the Sandy Hook massacre was a conspiracy. Do you believe that he was right just because he said it and some people agreed with it.

Just providing the evidence that proves the ''fake autopy'' photos , the Warren Commission lies , cover ups and conspiracy. .You do what you like .

[FISHY1118]

Perhaps Fishy can give us an approximated time of when he will have finished posting the entire content of Gil Jesus’ website onto this thread and we can all just come back when he’s done? With other posters of both sides trying to actually discuss the case, you know…using our own thoughts, we are perhaps in danger of slowing down Fishy’s important project. When he’s finished perhaps I’ll begin cut and pasting Vince Bugliosi’s book? At 1600 pages though I’m unsure how long it will take…a couple of years at least. Then perhaps I’ll go over and clog up one of the ripper threads by cutting and pasting the entire Sourcebook or Sugden. Perhaps we can start a new thread ‘cut and pasting’ corner?

Someone makes a point or asks a question and someone replies with a direct answer (if it was in response to a question) or they give their own thoughts (if it was in response to a point)

Is this too much to expect?

Its called ''Evidence'' Herlock , remember ''you asked'' for Actual Evidence .. you got it [and will continue to get ] .I cant help it if makes a mockery of your theory of the lone gunman . Your problem, not mind .

For god sake why would you ever want to post anything from that phoney bugliosi ? i,ve shown you he was a fraud but you ignored it as usual. your problem again , not mind.

ACTUAL EVIDENCE .