JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[cobalt]

Every other employee at the Book Depository knew that JFK's route took him past the Book Depository, so it's not credible that Oswald didn't know.

Oswald found out the route in the course of the morning as did no doubt several other workers as well. You are suggesting that every other employee of the TSBD knew the route when they arrived for duty first thing in the morning. There is no evidence to support that; a cursory knowledge of human nature indicates why. Jack Dougherty had trouble remembering which day it was.

You have already answered why Oswald would not be interested in shooting Stevenson and Stevenson didn't drive by Oswald's place of work on a route published in the newspapers.

Stevenson would have been lower down Oswald's assumed hit list but that hardly made him immune to appearing in the faulty crosshairs of Oswald's Carcano. Stevenson's prevarications at the UN during the Cuban Missile Crisis would have made him a legitimate target if we accept the WC account of Oswald.

Nixon was attending the annual convention of the American Bottlers of Carbonated Beverages as an attorney for Pepsi. He didn't drive by Oswald's place of work on a route published in the newspapers.

Neither did General Edwin Walker but according to the WC he nearly fell victim to Oswald's lethal Carcano just the same.

[Fiver]

Oswald found out the route in the course of the morning as did no doubt several other workers as well.

JFK's motorcade route was published on November 18 in both Dallas papers, the Dallas Times Herald and the Dallas Morning News. The information was repeated in Dallas Morning News the next day.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Mike,

Even if we're just considering their relative positions, it's hard to see how a bullet striking JFK in the back from behind would miss Connally.

Cheers,
Frank

Agreed Frank. Unless it was a magic one of course.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Oswald found out the route in the course of the morning as did no doubt several other workers as well. You are suggesting that every other employee of the TSBD knew the route when they arrived for duty first thing in the morning. There is no evidence to support that; a cursory knowledge of human nature indicates why. Jack Dougherty had trouble remembering which day it was.

;

But the route was first announced in the papers on the 19th and had been finalised the day before that. So it had been public knowledge for 3-4 days by the time of the assassination. We can’t prove that he’d actually read it but the others appeared to know as everyone was talking about it. Marina also had tried to engage him on the subject of the visit and even though the two regularly discussed issues of politics Oswald’s didn’t want to know. Another point to add to the long list of examples of suspicious behaviour from LHO.

[FISHY1118]

The second shot according to you then is c399 yes?

If the first shot missed then 399 must have caused Tagues and Connallys wound ? Thats impossible with the pristine condition of c399

Or you must think Tagues wound was the third head shot which I've asked to see the evidence of that with no answer.

Fiver ? My bad missed your response . ill check it out

[FrankO]

Agreed Frank. Unless it was a magic one of course.

[cobalt]

Oswald was a political animal and knew that JFK was due in Dallas that late morning. No argument. But he was more a reader of political journals more than local news rags I should have thought. A motorcade route held little interest to Oswald. As a man hardly likely to want to capture what is now the 'political selfie' I can't imagine Oswald being very excited at waving to JFK from an upstairs window. Leave that to the plebs and the downtrodden masses.

It's interesting that the exchange about the motorcade described by Norman/Jarman (can't remember which) is very neutral. Oswald basically shrugs and no more. Which is very much to the co-workers credit. He might have said, given later events and undoubted pressure from the DP, that Oswald looked excited at the prospect and said something along the lines of 'Yeh, I heard.' Or even better (or worse) that Oswald said, 'Jeez, I had no idea about that whatsoever. You mean right under our window?' So well done lads in the TSBD. Oswald had his faults but his respect for non-white people seems to have been genuine and perhaps helped him in this instance.

I'll finish today on the enigmatic Jack Dougherty, a man whose testimony is so incoherent that it has aroused suspicion from CTs that he is playing the idiot to deflect attention. Dougherty claimed to start work earlier - at 7am - than other workers and may have had a key to the building. Now Dougherty said he saw no package under Oswald's arm when he entered that morning. Today we have examined his WC testimony and can reach our own opinion on what exactly he said, or meant. For me, his position is exactly the same as Norman and Jarman walking through (or past) the Domino Room at around 12.15. Dougherty had no reason to pay attention or remember much either way and if we accept the one lapse of scrutiny then we must logically accept the other.

[FISHY1118]

Correct.



I have never claimed that CE 399 caused Tague's wound. I have said this clearly and repeatedly. CE 399 could not have caused Tague's wound.

CE 399 did cause Connally's wounds. Forensic testing showed that bullet fragments taken from Connally's wounds must have come from CE 399.



I have clearly and repeated said that Tague's wound was caused by the first shot ricocheting or by a fragment of the bullet that hit JFK's head. I lean towards it being the bullet that missed the limo, but here is no way of confirming which.

Your four bullet theory also requires a shot that missed the limo ricocheting and causing Tague's wound, so I don't understand what you are trying to say.

What fragents of CE399 would they be ? The evidence is TOTALLY CRYSTAL clear, CE399 didnt cause Connollys injuries , and he was right in saying a separate bullet struck him that stuck the Presidents back and neck . The only logical conclusion is a 4th shot, Therefor the Warren commission is one big fat a lie .
..


Connally’s testimony: Warren Commission Hearings, vol.4, pp.135f. He was quoted in the Washington Post, 21 November 1966, saying that “there is my absolute knowledge that … one bullet caused the president’s first wound and that an entirely separate shot struck me. It is a certainty. I will never change my mind.” It was Connally’s testimony that persuaded one of the Warren Commissioners, Senator Richard Russell, that the single–bullet theory was untenable; see Richard Russell and the Warren Report [ Connally must have surely lied again]




''and that an entirely separate shot struck me. It is a certainty. I will never change my mind''

GAME OVER .





....... And yes ive taken this post from another forum to prove a point regarding the Magic bullet theory. Ive found it to be an excellent source of information

• They shot the same bullet type thru a cadaver's wrist... the results in the WCR...

The 800lb Gorilla is not two wounds, not bullets... its what did the SS do with the bullets they claim were in their possession

the other 800lb Gorilla is WHERE did CE399 come from?

Do you understand that if you shoot those bullets thru water... or cotton fiber, you get the same slight deformation...

Look at the top of CE399... THAT was supposed to have shattered ribs and wrist AFTER passing thru JFK (Which Drs have already said was impossible)

and still have enough power to lodge in JC's leg...



Plus, the men who handled what became CE399, ALL COULD NOT, WOULD NOT AUTHENTICATE THAT BULLET AS THE ONE THEY HANDLED...

So how can CE399 be the SBT whan none of those who had it can identify it?

One last question....

Here is what happen to a POINTED FMJ bullet at different speeds... the MC in evidence does not fire much past 2100fps....

So we would EXPECT the bullet to remain somewhat intact....



As you know... the headshot produced MANY very small particles of metal... and a sort of fog at the front top of the brain...

ASK anyone familiar with FMJ and why they were designed... to NOT BREAK UP AT HIGH SPEEDS when traveling thru a body... a more human bullet since the wound was clean and there would be less infection and death for the injured...

So why didn't the headshot just go thru and thru, like the SBT, and come out pristine - these were two bullets, from the same lot, from the same rifle...

ACTING as if they were not....

So show me the /any evidence the fragments of JFKs head shot bullet were fired from the rifle that was found in the tsbd . ?

[Fiver]

What fragents of CE399 would they be ? The evidence is TOTALLY CRYSTAL clear, CE399 didnt cause Connollys injuries , and he was right in saying a separate bullet struck him that stuck the Presidents back and neck .

As noted before, neutron analysis showed that the stretcher bullet (CE 399) and bullet fragments taken from Connally's wrist (CE 842) matched.

The only logical conclusion is a 4th shot, Therefor the Warren commission is one big fat a lie .

The theory that the shot that went through JFK's throat and the shot that struck Connally were different bullets has several problems.
* Why did only 5% of the witnesses hear four or more shots?
* If JFK wasn't hit in the throat by CE 399, what happened to the bullet? Even if it was fired at a different time than CE 399, it should have hit something or someone inside the limo after it exited JFK's throat.
* Based on where Connnally was sitting, how could a bullet fired at JFK have missed JFK and still hit Connally?

[Fiver]

Connally’s testimony: Warren Commission Hearings, vol.4, pp.135f. He was quoted in the Washington Post, 21 November 1966, saying that “there is my absolute knowledge that … one bullet caused the president’s first wound and that an entirely separate shot struck me. It is a certainty. I will never change my mind.” It was Connally’s testimony that persuaded one of the Warren Commissioners, Senator Richard Russell, that the single–bullet theory was untenable; see Richard Russell and the Warren Report [ Connally must have surely lied again]

You're quoting http://22november1963.org.uk/single-...-assassination again, but not giving them any credit. If you're going to parrot someone's ideas at least give them credit.

As previously noted, that site has posted provably false statements.

That site is deliberately ignoring most of Connally's testimony.
* Connally believed there were only 3 shots fired.
* Connally believed all 3 shots came from the Book Depository.
* Connally believed all three shots were fired by Oswald.
* Connally believed there was no Conspiracy.

No one who favors the single bullet theory has accused Connally of lying, merely of being mistaken about how many of the three shots hit. Please stop misrepresenting the views of people who disagree with you.

[Fiver]

A motorcade route held little interest to Oswald.

You have repeatedly ignored the statements of at least 8 people who said that Oswald was abusing his wife, so I'm not inclined to accept your view on what Oswald would be interested in.

As a man hardly likely to want to capture what is now the 'political selfie' I can't imagine Oswald being very excited at waving to JFK from an upstairs window.

No one has claimed that Oswald had any interest in waving to JFK from an upstairs window.

[Fiver]

[*]They shot the same bullet type thru a cadaver's wrist... the results in the WCR...

The Warren Commission tests used bullets fired directly at cadaver wrists.

Firing bullett directly into the wrist of cadavers was not an accurate test. 1992 tests by Failure Analysis Associates with lower velocity, as would be expected from a bullet that had passed through Connally's chest, did not result in bullet fragmentation from striking cadaver wrists, and the test bullets were generally less deformed than CE 399.

Estimates are that after passing through JFK's neck and Connally's chest, CE 399 would have been traveling around 300 meters per second. The series of pics you posted from an unattributed source using a different bullet against an unknown target show little deformation and small or no fragments at speeds of 730 meters per second or less.

[Fiver]

the other 800lb Gorilla is WHERE did CE399 come from?

That's not a problem for the Single Bullet Theory, it's a problem for the people who think JFK's throat wound and Connally's wounds were caused by different bullets.

Your theory requires:
* The JFK throat bullet to magically disappear after exiting his throat.
* It also requires the bullet to magically miss everyone and everything else in the limo.
* Your version of the Connally bullet requires it to curve in midair to miss JFK and then curve again to hit Connally.

[scottnapa]

* So far, neither you nor anyone else has provided evidence that Oswald worked for the CIA.
* If Oswald was CIA, that makes him an inept spy.
* It makes the CIA even more inept by using him in the first place and for not firing Oswald for his ineptness.
* If everyone knew Oswald was a CIA asset, then he would have been the last person on earth the CIA would have used as a patsy.
* If any other US government group had proof that Oswald was CIA, they would have told RFK at a minimum.
* If the Russians had proof that Oswald was CIA, they would have made it public in an attempt to destroy the CIA.

What proof do I have that you understand this topic?
Always with the hyper-exaggerations!
Oswald isn't James Bond but he isnt Gomer Pyle either.

[scottnapa]

You have never provided proof that any of the evidence would not be admissible in court and I have never agreed with you on this point.

How very stubborn of you. I apologize for giving you credit.
it’s Texas law. You made an effort on Feb 21st and quoted a true fact Texas law was broken your response is to parse illegal and chain of evidence.
I quoted Wikipedia not a conspiracy site. You did not respond so I assumed you have dropped the subject.and understood the legal issue.
NYT:
“On Nov. 22, 1963, Dr. Rose was thrust into the thick of a 20th-century American nightmare. He performed an autopsy on J. D. Tippit, the police officer who was believed to have been killed by Lee Harvey Oswald, the lone suspect in the assassination. Two days later, he performed an autopsy on Oswald himself after the nightclub owner Jack Ruby shot him in the basement of Dallas police headquarters. Four years later, Dr. Rose performed an autopsy on Ruby, determining that he had died of a blood clot in a lung.
But it was the autopsy he did not do that has become the most historic. After demanding to conduct an autopsy on the president, as he was legally required to do in any murder, Dr. Rose reluctantly stepped aside to allow the president’s body to be returned to Washington, as the president’s widow, Jacqueline Kennedy, and his aides insisted.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/03/us/earl-rose-coroner-when-jfk-was-shot-dies-at-85.html#

No crime if no evidence of a crime. The body is the evidence.

https://www.plaintalk.net/local_news/article_15ead55e-894d-11ee-9a2b-c718fd235a58.html

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