JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

See 6. The fewer the people, the less the chance of achieving the objective.

You are ignoring that the alleged Conspiracy had multiple objectives.

* Kill JFK.
* Frame a lone gunman.
* Don't get caught.

More shooters increase the chance the target dies, but attacking when the target is in a moving vehicle greatly reduces the chance of success. And if JFK hadn't have insisted on not having the top on the limo, the Conspiracy wouldn't have had a clear shot from any direction.

The Conspiracy would have had a much easier target that morning in Ft Worth, when JFK spoke behind a podium on a raised platform in the open, with a lot of windows and roofs overlooking the site.

Framing someone means faking a lot of evidence and eyewitness testimony. That adds a lot more people to the Conspiracy, greatly increasing the chance of getting caught.

Every additional shooter reduces the chance of the frame working and adds dozens of more Conspirators. It's much worse if you fire shots from locations that your patsy couldn't have possibly fired from.

With hundreds of Conspirators, many from rival groups, there is no way someone wouldn't have talked.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Herlock: Why would Earl Warren, who worshipped the ground that Kennedy walked on, have presided over a corrupt commission? Why would he and the other Kennedy admirers (counsels, staff etc) have done so? Were not one of them decent, patriotic men? Those men that all saw military service. It’s very easy and very ‘trendy’ to sit on a forum and accuse people of being traitors to their country because the ‘all authority and all institutions are evil’ attitude is the one that’s on trend these days but to some people, especially in years passed, felt a strong duty to their country. This was less than 20 years after the end of WW2 and during the Cold War.

George: Orders from higher authority. The dissenting opinions were suppressed.

Herlock: A convenient assumption with no evidence to back it up. An no, errors and omissions don’t justify a response of conspiracy and yet that’s what happened. It’s nothing more than a cliché.

Me: I'll add that Earl Warren was the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, so there is no higher authority than him. Under the US system of checks and balances and separation of power, even the President wasn't a higher authority than the Chief Justice. (Nor is the Chief Justice a higher authority than the President. The US government isn't fully hierarchical.) Warren wouldn't have had to take orders from anyone.

And every indication was that Warren was a deeply patriotic man who loved Kennedy and who had to be persuaded by Johnson to do a job that he didn’t want to do. Of course, just like anything in this case, this gives grounds for conspiracy as it’s used as ‘Warren not wanting to take part in a conspiracy’ but this is clearly nonsense. Warren however was one of the reasons that councils on the commission complained (again giving rise to conspiracy talk) They believed that he at times put consideration for the feelings of the Kennedy family first.

[FISHY1118]

Why would you think that the assassins needed to play parts in a conspiracy play. They were there only to ensure the death of Kennedy. The conspiracy arose when Johnson needed to convince the public of a lone assassin rather than a plot by a foreign government. The single bullet theory was contrived by a lawyer to address that aim, and carefully avoided medical and ballistic imperatives.

Have you heard of the Kansas City shuffle - when everybody looks right, you go left. Bullets from the rear to draw attention from the actual assassin at the front left. Should we rely on the "what if" and "why would" opinions of lawyers, or the medical and forensic ballistic proofs of someone like the late Sherry Fiester? Hmmm...let me think. It's all there in the links I posted.

I think that I am starting to agree with Fishy - it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong

Well George i just couldnt help myself after reading your post . I will leave you to continue on for now with the ''Why would they'' , ''Why Wouldnt they gang'' but of all the Contradictions and Inconsistancies [i.e Bullls$#%] the magic bullet ,3 shot lone gunman is by far an away their achillies heal.

This one quote from Governor John Connally, which is verified by his wife and two motorbike police officers, is game over for the Warren Comission Conspiracy.

If Connally is correct ,and as yet no one has given an even remotely half desent explanation as to why he isnt, then by definition there has to be a 4th shot .


Connally’s testimony: Warren Commission Hearings, vol.4, pp.135f. He was quoted in the Washington Post, 21 November 1966, saying that “there is my absolute knowledge that … one bullet caused the president’s first wound and that an entirely separate shot struck me. It is a certainty. I will never change my mind.” It was Connally’s testimony that persuaded one of the Warren Commissioners, Senator Richard Russell, that the single–bullet theory was untenable; see Richard Russell and the Warren Report [ Connally must have surely lied again]


and that an entirely separate shot struck me. It is a certainty. I will never change my mind.”

and that an entirely separate shot struck me. It is a certainty. I will never change my mind.”

and that an entirely separate shot struck me. It is a certainty. I will never change my mind.”

and that an entirely separate shot struck me. It is a certainty. I will never change my mind.”

You think it would sink in by now !!!




Here,s their Reponse , ''Oh but Connally was disorientated , and under all kinds of stress and trauma and shock !!!!! . What nonsense, and frankly what an insult to the intelligence of him and his wife, and their memory . Truly Shameful IMO

Yes Connally is on record as stating 'all three shots hit there mark , and yes he believed they were fired from the TSBD , however given the fact the 4th and fatal head shot from the front came almost simultaniuly as the 3rd shot from the TSBD, like most people on the day they also thought the same same thing.

It changes nothing in relation to his claim of being struck by a separate bullet.


Connally stated he was struck by the ''second'' bullet , James Tague claimed his injury was cause by the ''second'' shot

How then did the bullet that hit Connally and cause all of his injuries , travel 100 metres away, hit a concrete curve , deflect up and cause Tagues wound ?

Let the ''why would they'' and the ''why wouldnt they gang'' continue to give Outlandish Narrative they hope will Convince people to look the other way , let them make up stories up all day long ,because in the end the the truth will out as the evidence shows , and that truth is there was a 4th shot fired from the front of the Presidential Limosine that day that blew the back of the Presidents head right out .

Ill leave the Drs testimony at parkland hospital who saw that first hand for another time .

[Herlock Sholmes]

That's what a dozen assassins attempted in 1962 against Charles De Gaulle. 187 shots fired. 14 hit De Gaulle's vehicle.

Total dead - zero.

Total injuries - a random bystander was lightly wounded and Madame De Gaulle got a small cut on her hand brushing broken glass off.

Some of the Conspirators were caught. One talked. Ten were arrested. Six fled the country and were tried in absentia. One committed suicide, one was executed, the other 14 were sentenced to death or long prison terms.

You found on that I missed Fiver. And that one didn’t work. They would have had more success using a lone gunman.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Well George i just couldnt help myself after reading your post . I will leave you to continue on for now with the ''Why would they'' , ''Why Wouldnt they gang'' but of all the Contradictions and Inconsistancies [i.e Bullls$#%] the magic bullet ,3 shot lone gunman is by far an away their achillies heal.

This one quote from Governor John Connally, which is verified by his wife and two motorbike police officers, is game over for the Warren Comission Conspiracy.

If Connally is correct ,and as yet no one has given an even remotely half desent explanation as to why he isnt, then by definition there has to be a 4th shot .


Connally’s testimony: Warren Commission Hearings, vol.4, pp.135f. He was quoted in the Washington Post, 21 November 1966, saying that “there is my absolute knowledge that … one bullet caused the president’s first wound and that an entirely separate shot struck me. It is a certainty. I will never change my mind.” It was Connally’s testimony that persuaded one of the Warren Commissioners, Senator Richard Russell, that the single–bullet theory was untenable; see Richard Russell and the Warren Report [ Connally must have surely lied again]


and that an entirely separate shot struck me. It is a certainty. I will never change my mind.”

and that an entirely separate shot struck me. It is a certainty. I will never change my mind.”

and that an entirely separate shot struck me. It is a certainty. I will never change my mind.”

and that an entirely separate shot struck me. It is a certainty. I will never change my mind.”

You think it would sink in by now !!!




Here,s their Reponse , ''Oh but Connally was disorientated , and under all kinds of stress and trauma and shock !!!!! . What nonsense, and frankly what an insult to the intelligence of him and his wife, and their memory . Truly Shameful IMO

Yes Connally is on record as stating 'all three shots hit there mark , and yes he believed they were fired from the TSBD , however given the fact the 4th and fatal head shot from the front came almost simultaniuly as the 3rd shot from the TSBD, like most people on the day they also thought the same same thing.

It changes nothing in relation to his claim of being struck by a separate bullet.


Connally stated he was struck by the ''second'' bullet , James Tague claimed his injury was cause by the ''second'' shot

How then did the bullet that hit Connally and cause all of his injuries , travel 100 metres away, hit a concrete curve , deflect up and cause Tagues wound ?

Let the ''why would they'' and the ''why wouldnt they gang'' continue to give Outlandish Narrative they hope will Convince people to look the other way , let them make up stories up all day long ,because in the end the the truth will out as the evidence shows , and that truth is there was a 4th shot fired from the front of the Presidential Limosine that day that blew the back of the Presidents head right out .

Ill leave the Drs testimony at parkland hospital who saw that first hand for another time .

Even today, with all of the modern technology available, people still argue about at what exact point Kennedy’s and Connally react. It’s a minute fraction of a second. And you are actually claiming that one of the two people shot could possibly come up with a definitive answer? When one person was sitting behind the other? Connally was simply mistaken. 3 cartridges Fishy.

[Geddy2112]

I'm rather neutral on this but what happens if when all the latest documents have been analysed or a new enquiry proves LHO and A.N. Other did the shooting? Will that be the end of it or will the Lone Gunman supporters not accept it?

[GBinOz]

Well George i just couldnt help myself after reading your post . I will leave you to continue on for now with the ''Why would they'' , ''Why Wouldnt they gang''

No thanks Fishy. I think I need a break from this forum.

[Doctored Whatsit]

I'm rather neutral on this but what happens if when all the latest documents have been analysed or a new enquiry proves LHO and A.N. Other did the shooting? Will that be the end of it or will the Lone Gunman supporters not accept it?

I don't think that any number of enquiries will actually prove anything absolutely. Another enquiry will probably confirm some things and cast doubt on others.

People will continue to grasp some of the evidence as gospel and reject other aspects. Connally said that a different bullet hit him from the one that hit JFK, despite having his back to the President, so he must be right about that because he is a very reliable witness. However, he must be totally wrong when he said that there were definitely only three shots, and absolutely wrong when he said that he was definitely hit by the second bullet, and for many also wrong when he said that all bullets were fired from the rear, because he is an unreliable witness.

We all, myself included, must select the bits of evidence that seem most likely to us, because so much is contradictory.

Personally, I don't reject the possibility of a second gunman, but he doesn't have to be in league with Oswald - who would want to do something as complex and risky as killing the President, and then choosing Oswald as a partner or a patsy? He was totally unreliable, and who could be sure of what he might say when questioned?

The vast majority of the evidence is of bullets from the rear - not one person in the car thought the bullets came from the front, and there was, I believe, no damage to the car relevant to a bullet from the front. A shot from the front would have to pass through the windscreen, clear the front row passenger, a windshield, then the second row passenger before hitting the President. This would be less than ideal! Any shot from the front would have been from a relatively open area where the risk of being seen by other viewers, police or news cameras etc would have been considerable, even before the shot was fired. After the sound of the shot the risk would have been even higher. No shells were found there despite extensive searches.

A professional hitman might seek the cover of a building where he could lurk out of sight, and where an escape route had been identified. A shot from the rear would have JFK immediately in total view, with no obstructions in the car.

But I admit that I don't know any more than anyone else.

[Fiver]

No he wasn't, and didn't. Both the Americans and the Russians knew he was a CIA asset, as were many others in that program.

* So far, neither you nor anyone else has provided evidence that Oswald worked for the CIA.
* If Oswald was CIA, that makes him an inept spy.
* It makes the CIA even more inept by using him in the first place and for not firing Oswald for his ineptness.
* If everyone knew Oswald was a CIA asset, then he would have been the last person on earth the CIA would have used as a patsy.
* If any other US government group had proof that Oswald was CIA, they would have told RFK at a minimum.
* If the Russians had proof that Oswald was CIA, they would have made it public in an attempt to destroy the CIA.

[Fiver]

Orders from higher authority. The dissenting opinions were suppressed.

What higher authority? JFK was the head of the Executive Branch. Warren was the head of the Judicial Branch. The only way to have a higher authority is if you assume the entire US government are mere puppets to the Secret Masters.

And if JFK was a mere puppet, selected by the Secret Masters, then they had no need to assassinate him to get what they wanted.

[Fiver]

When RFK was asked about the Warren Commission report he said it was a work of fiction.

According to RFK, Jr, his father said the Warren Commission report was a "shoddy piece of craftsmanship." and that "The evidence at this point I think is very, very convincing that it was not a lone gunman."

RFK, Jr claims a worm ate part of his brain, believes the polio vaccine killed more people than polio, and once decapitated a whale carcass with a chainsaw and strapped the leaking, rotting head to the roof of his car.

That's not a high credibility source.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I'm rather neutral on this but what happens if when all the latest documents have been analysed or a new enquiry proves LHO and A.N. Other did the shooting? Will that be the end of it or will the Lone Gunman supporters not accept it?

I’ve said it fairly recently Geddy. If absolute proof was provided which showed that LHO wasn’t the lone gunman I’d have no problem saying “ok, I was wrong.” I can’t speak for those on here that believe in a conspiracy of course but I can say with a high level of confidence that there are many conspiracy theorists out there for whom nothing would satisfy them as to Oswald acting along. Crystal clear film footage of Oswald firing the gun from the 6th floor plus film footage taken from the railway yard to the fence showing no one there plus a signed and scientifically verified confession from Oswald that he killed Kennedy alone STILL wouldn’t convince because they’d be whining about fakes (as they do now)

[Herlock Sholmes]

* So far, neither you nor anyone else has provided evidence that Oswald worked for the CIA.
.

If I recall correctly Fiver someone produced a document ‘linking’ Oswald to the CIA until someone noticed that the serial numbers were wrong and that it was a fake. I recall at the time that I may….just may have noted the supreme irony of the conspiracy side using an actual faked document…not just an alleged one.

[Fiver]

Yeah, I've read it. That bit about the sling just begs the question... if there IS a sling already hard-bolted into the stock... why attach a "homemade, simulated sling" that looks like a piece of rope?

There's a homemade sling in the backyard photos. By the time of the JFK assassination, the rifle has a much better sling. The simple explanation is that the rifle had no sling when he bought it, he created an improved sling, and later replaced the improvised sling with a better sling.

[Herlock Sholmes]

There's a homemade sling in the backyard photos. By the time of the JFK assassination, the rifle has a much better sling. The simple explanation is that the rifle had no sling when he bought it, he created an improved sling, and later replaced the improvised sling with a better sling.

Too simple Fiver.