JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

Arlen Spector created the magic bullet theory to fit the crime. 7 entrances and exits, a back brace, 7 layers of clothing and pulverizing of rib bone and wrist to come out virtually pristine.

Here's an example of two men wounded by a single bullet. Here's an example of two men killed and a third wounded by a single bullet.

I'm not sure why you mention the back brace. The bullet went through JFK's neck.

And then the bullet somehow ends up on Connallys gurney. Yet the Secret Service Agent who claims he found it in front of Kennedys foot area in the Limo is clearly lying.

Landis was lying, the only question was whether he did so in 1963 or 2023.

In 2023, Paul Landis claimed he saw a fully intact bullet "sitting on the back seat ledge, where the cushion meets the metal on the car."

Landis claims he "So all the time I've been standing there, I've been kind of fumbling with the bullet in my pocket. I took it out and I set it by the president's left foot, and it was like a white cotton blanket on the table, and the bullet started to roll off the table, and I reached out and grabbed it, and there was a little wrinkle in the blanket. So I put the bullet so that it wouldn't roll off. It stopped in that blanket."

This would be a good time to note that Landis is selling a book and that his 2023 statements contradict his 1963 statements.

"By this time someone was lifting the President's body out of the right side of the car. Agent Hill helped Mrs. Kennedy out of the car, and I followed. Mrs. Kennedy's purse and hat and a cigarette lighter were on the back seat. I picked these three items up as I walked through the car and followed Mrs. Kennedy into the hospital.

The President's body was taken directly to an Emergency Room, and I think I remember Mrs. Kennedy following the people in but coming out almost immediately. The door to the Emergency Room was closed and I stayed by Mrs. Kennedy's side. Someone, in the meantime, had brought a chair for Mrs. Kennedy to sit in and she sat just outside of the Emergency Room. There were several people milling around and with the help of a nurse we cleared all unauthorized personnel out of the immediate area."

"Most of the time while in the hospital I stayed right next to Mrs. Kennedy. Twice, I believe, she went into the Room where the President was; however, I remained outside by the door. A short time later I still remember several people standing around, and I asked a doctor for help in clearing the area. At approximately 2:00 p.m. the President's body was wheeled from the hospital in a coffin into an ambulance."

But Landis doesn't just contradict himself, he contradicts where bullet CE 399 was found, which was Connally's, not JFK's stretcher.

What Landis describes is a magic bullet - only he can see it, it lets him enter and exit the Emergency Room unseen by anyone, leave the bullet where no one else sees it, and then it magically teleports to Connally's stretcher, having acquired damage that Landis never saw, and teleporting two fragments of itself into Connally's wrist.

[Fiver]

The same Arlen Specter involved in selling guns to the Iranians and using the profit to try and overthrow the government of Nicaragua and ....hey...it's ok to lie to the American people. But they usually get caught.

Lots of people were part of the Iran-Contrs sffair. Feel free to provide evidence that Spector was one of them.





Specter has no credibility with the American public. The magic bullet is the link needed to say it was Oswald.

There is doubt.

[/QUOTE]

[Fiver]

Once the body is removed, there can be no trial in Dallas for the death of the President.

I have repeatedly cited Texas law showing you are wrong about this.

Oswald was arraigned for the murder of President Kennedy before Justice of the Peace David Johnston at 1:35 a.m., November 23.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, let's pass to the arraignment concerning President Kennedy, and I wish you would dictate into the record the same information you did as to the first one.
Mr. JOHNSTON. All right, sir. This was the arraignment of Lee Harvey Oswald for the murder with malice of John F. Kennedy, cause No. F-154, The State of Texas versus Lee Harvey Oswald. The complaint was filed at 11:25 p.m., was accepted by me at 11:26 p.m. It was filed at approximately 11:25 p.m. by Capt. J. W. Fritz, homicide bureau of the Dallas Police Department, and was accepted by Henry Wade, criminal district attorney, Dallas County, Tex., and was docketed as cause No. 154, F-154 at 11:26 p.m.
Shortly after this is when the defendant was taken to the detail room or the assembly room.
Mr. HUBERT. What happened at this arraignment--was it the same as before?
Mr. JOHNSTON. He was not arraigned at this time. He was then arraigned after he was removed to the detail room where the press was allowed to have their first interview with the defendant, with Lee Harvey Oswald.
Subsequently in a conference between Captain Fritz, Mr. Wade, and two or three of his assistants and myself, and Chief Curry--it was decided to go ahead and arraign him and that arraignment was held at 1:35 a.m., November 23, 1963, in the identification bureau of the Dallas Police Department, and once again I appraised him of his constitutional rights, read the affidavit, and advised him again that I remanded him to the custody of the sheriff, Dallas County, denying bond as capital offense. He was also told at both of these instances that he would be given the right to contact an attorney of his choice.

Care to explain why you think you know more about Texas law than DPD Chief Curry, Captain Fritz of the DPD Homicide Bureau, Dallas District Attorney Wade, and Justice of the Peace Johnston?

[scottnapa]

So you don’t have time to answer my questions as you promised to but you have time to make a post as long as that.

Duly noted.

Hello Lock
I have not forgotten
I owe you more answers.
The answers will be short or long.
As it happens the next one that addresses your point will be long.
I have three other things I would like to post and talk about. I’m not sure what the hurry is for you given that I’m not sure there’s anything I could say that would get you to change your mind and the arguing back-and-forth takes a mental toll,
I’m happy to have conservations, it doesn’t happen often.
There is an unnecessary bit of snark present in your post.
I’m going to have eye surgery at the end of the month as I have mentioned previously.
Staring at the computer screen right now it is a tiring exercise.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hello Lock
I have not forgotten
I owe you more answers.
The answers will be short or long.
As it happens the next one that addresses your point will be long.
I have three other things I would like to post and talk about. I’m not sure what the hurry is for you given that I’m not sure there’s anything I could say that would get you to change your mind and the arguing back-and-forth takes a mental toll,
I’m happy to have conservations, it doesn’t happen often.
There is an unnecessary bit of snark present in your post.
I’m going to have eye surgery at the end of the month as I have mentioned previously.
Staring at the computer screen right now it is a tiring exercise.

Hello Scott.

First…my apologies for not taking into consideration your eye problems. I hope that the surgery goes well.

Second…yes there was ‘snark’ in my comment and yes I shouldn’t really have aimed it in your direction.

Third…you honestly don’t have to bother answering it’s my intention not to post on this subject again (if I can show a little will power)

Fourth…you say that nothing will change my mind as if I’m being bloody-minded whilst the conspiracy side are the open minded ones. I’d accuse the conspiracy side of being bloody minded. Of starting out from a position of conspiracy and then seeing everything in terms of it.

Ill finish by saying….all of those wider questions that I put to you….not one single poster has ever answered but, more importantly, no matter how confident conspiracy supporters on here claim to be, I have TWICE asked them to tell us what they actually believe…Oswald plus GK gunman, Unknown 6th floor gunman plus GK gunman, gunman firing from elsewhere and GK gunman, not one of them had the courage of their convictions to state something so simple.

Anyone would think that they were uncomfortable with scrutiny.

[FISHY1118]

You are 1) doing the usual trick of ascribing general ideas of stupidity to an argument that I don't hold, and 2) over simplifying matters.

Show me any evidence that Oswald was on the 6th floor of the building at the time of the shooting. And if the words "Howard" and "Brennan" are about to flit through your mind let me put THAT to bed straight away.
Brennan was talking absolute rubbish that any lawyer with a brain would have been able to tear through by having the court take a quick trip to Dealey Plaza, stand beneath the building at the point where where Brennan was and put someone standing at the window in the way Brennan described, have it open the 12" it was on the day and ask Brennan to describe that persons height, age, weight and hair colour. It was impossible to see a man from his waist to the top of his head standing at the window unless they were about 2' tall. Brennan couldn't identify Oswald in the line up until later in the day, after the news had coincidentally started showing his picture on the TV. The best Brennan came up with was that Oswald looked the "most like" the man he claimed he saw. And that had nothing to do with the fact that oswald was the only one in the line up who had just been beaten by cops, and looked like it.
No one was able to identify the shooter they saw in that window.

I notice that earlier you mentioned Oswald and the sweater... and how that time delay was most fortunate for Ruby. So we'll use your own rationalising the other way round and see if that stands.
The exact same argument applies to Oswald, but I doubt you'll see it that way.
Oswald was seen on the ground floor at a few minutes before 12:15 eating his lunch. Had Kennedy not stopped at Love Field for an extra 15 minutes to gladhand with the crowd. He would have been pulling round the corner of Main onto Houston at the time the assassin was seen eating his lunch. Lucky for him that Kennedy was running as late as he was in order to get up there, set up the nest and reassemble his rifle.
Of course, of there's nothing to cut and paste from the Warren Report on this as rather than try and clear this up, that witness - Carolyn Arnold, whose FBI statement gave Oswald an alibi, was never brought to the Warren Commission or re-interviewed by anyone connected to investigating the assassination.
Of course, Eddie Piper and Bill Shelley who both saw Oswald down stairs at around noon were both called, as their testimony wasn't at all threatening to the narrative.
Nothing unusual there, as Victoria Adams, who testified that she set off immediately to head down the stairs ended up in the report as having waited a minute before heading down the stairs where she was said to have met with Billy Lovelady and Bill Shelley who were behind the TSBD for a few minutes (she never said that, only that she saw them later...), and despite her asking to be part of the recreation so she could show them, and protestations that Sandra Styles (who was with her on the stairs) Elsie Dormand and Dorothy Garner (all of whom have since corroborated Vicky's statement on numerous occasions including signed affidavits) would tell the Commission she was right, they dismissed her account... and refused to investigate further by following up on her claims.

Obviously this posed a problem for the narrative, as Oswald SHOULD have been on that staircase. It was the only way he could have got down to the 2nd floor lunchroom in time to meet Truly and Baker. He was on the second floor within 90 seconds of the shots being fired.
The recreation walkthrough showed that such a timing was possible, but never considered introducing any known factors that might dispute it.

Garner even stayed by the stairwell door as Vicky and Sandra went down the stairs and saw no one else till Baker and Truly came up them a few moments later. But that wasn't in the Warren Report so we can all safely assume it just didn't happen and they were all conspiracy nuts or just "silly women", which was how Bellin and co painted the situation.

But they all lied . That the standard response you'll receive no doubt.

[Patrick Differ]

Arlen Specter gave an interview to US News and World Report in 1966. Almost 3 years after the Assassination. He became, Chief Investigator for the Warren Commission. ( His words)
in the interview he admits some shocking details. Like the contradiction between Parkland and Bethesday autopsy in terms of entry and exit wounds on Kennedy. He also said they used probabilities based on this some level of evidence and that the Warren Commission came up with the " conclusions". Shots came from behind because that's where the gun was found.
He also did not know ( in 1966) whether the FBI or WC had seen all the Kennedy photographs. He believed the WC did not but it would not have changed the outcome. He was unsure of the FBIs actual involvement period.
Specter also goes on to say that both Parkland and Bethesda had " limited access" to the body but he felt Humes had enough time for producing a detailed Autopsy report. Eventhough Humes destroyed his notes? ( or was told to?).
Kennedys body was being prepared the morning of the 23rd.
Limited access and time ?? Conclusions based on probabilities? We didn't need to see all the photographs?
Specter in 1966. He had no idea who suppressed the photographs.
Sure...I'm going to believe the Chief Investigator for the WC who apparently...just wasn't sure.

[FISHY1118]

Care to explain how your "TRUTH and Facts" say that is was Oswald's rifle and that it wasn't Oswald's rifle?

Care to explain the Mauser transformed into a Carcano ?

[scottnapa]

Hello Scott.

First…my apologies for not taking into consideration your eye problems. I hope that the surgery goes well.

Second…yes there was ‘snark’ in my comment and yes I shouldn’t really have aimed it in your direction.

Third…you honestly don’t have to bother answering it’s my intention not to post on this subject again (if I can show a little will power)

Fourth…you say that nothing will change my mind as if I’m being bloody-minded whilst the conspiracy side are the open minded ones. I’d accuse the conspiracy side of being bloody minded. Of starting out from a position of conspiracy and then seeing everything in terms of it.

Ill finish by saying….all of those wider questions that I put to you….not one single poster has ever answered but, more importantly, no matter how confident conspiracy supporters on here claim to be, I have TWICE asked them to tell us what they actually believe…Oswald plus GK gunman, Unknown 6th floor gunman plus GK gunman, gunman firing from elsewhere and GK gunman, not one of them had the courage of their convictions to state something so simple.

Anyone would think that they were uncomfortable with scrutiny.

Thank you for your comment. I appreciate you understanding my situation
I have very good doctors. I'm sure things will go well but it is a surgery and there's a chance I could lose eyesight. Might be one in a 1000 or one in 10,000 Knowing that possibility exists is worrisome and fills my medium sized brain with anxiety.

[scottnapa]

Those of you who think that the package that Oswald carried into the TSBD wasn't a rifle, do you think then that he was telling the truth that it contained curtain rods?

No. Oswald lies often. Curtain rods seems to be just something he's saying to say something. I do not know why would Oswald buy curtain rods for an tiny room he doesn't own? On the other hand the WC lies about the bag. The MC dissassembled is 34". . Linnie Mae Fraizer saw Oswald carrying it holding it at the top and the bottom not hitting the ground; Buell Fraizer saw Oswald carry it cupped in his right hand with the top under his right shoulder.
The FBI measurement in Frazier's car's back seat 27”. WC gave Fraizer a lie dectector test which he passsed and so the WC elected to not publist the results of a test they did not like. To this day Fraizer insists there was no rifle in his car

[scottnapa]

From Vincent Bugliosi’s Reclaiming History:

"2:04 p.m. [CST] --- By the time the president's body is ready to be moved from Parkland Hospital, the row over the state of Texas's jurisdiction over the body has turned into a major imbroglio. Medical examiner Dr. Earl Rose refuses to listen …

Admiral Burkley says, enraged. "This is the president of the United States and there should be some consideration in an event like this."

"We can't release anything!" Rose screams. "A violent death requires a postmortem! There's a law here. We're going to enforce it."

A crush of forty sweating men are clustered around the wide doorway as curses fly back and forth. One of them looks like he might belt the medical examiner at any moment. Theron Ward, a young justice of the peace for the Third Precinct of Dallas County, makes his way down the corridor. Too timid to buck the medical examiner, the young justice tells them there is nothing he can do. "In a homicide case, it's my duty to order an autopsy," Ward says in a tone much too weak for Dr. Rose's pleasure. "It shouldn't take more than three hours.” Ward tells him, "It's just another homicide case as far as I'm concerned.” O'Donnell's response is instantaneous. "Go **** yourself," he yells. "We're leaving!"

A policeman next to Rose points to the medical examiner and the justice of the peace and says to the president's men, "These two guyssay you can't go."
"Move aside," shouts Larry O'Brien, moving toward the officer. "Get the hell out of the way," O'Donnell hollers. "We're not staying here three hours or three minutes. We're leaving now! Wheel it out!" he orders.
The Secret Service men shoulder their way into the patrolman, who wisely capitulates. Rose, overpowered by circumstance, steps out of the way as the casket is wheeled toward the emergency exit, Mrs. Kennedy hurrying alongside, her fingertips touching the bronze finish.”




Bugliosi digs deeper than DVP and gets somethings right:
“There's a law here. We're going to enforce it.”
“my duty to order an autopsy.”
“overpowered by circumstance.”

And a few things wrong. It doesn’t help that Bugliosi is a mediocre writer.
“refuses to listen” NOT true. Dr Rose is following the law.
“…crush of forty sweating men.”Really? 40 sweaty men sounds like a wet dream in an unfinished romance novel.
One of them looks like…”non-specific sentence describing emotional mood. Either have a man’s name or remove the statement.
Too timid - NOT true. doing his diligence
These two guys -sounds like a mob hit with made men. Again, doing diligence.
The story as Bugliosi tells it, is presented as a victory. The writing is emotional to the point of melodramatic: Mrs Kennedy touching the casket. Etc. Dr Rose is mocked as a petty interloper, a man who inserts himself into the situation by obstructing the affairs of state; to be pushed aside for ignoring the needs of Jackie Kennedy on the worst day of her life. The trivial melodramatic tone ignores the legal ramifications.
Interesting choice by a lawyer. There is a cost to ignoring the law.

It cannot be ignored that the skills shown by Dr. Rose in Dallas with the autopsies of Oswald. Tippet and Ruby showcase a high-level of professional standards. Dr Michael Baden commented that he would grade the JFK autopsy as performed by Humes as an “F”. A failure.
Baden contrasted that by giving Dr. Rose an “A” grade.for the Oswald autopsy.

After Oswald is killed, previously inadmissible evidence can now presented as “facts” for the political WC trial by committee.
Evidence that would be dismissed at a real trial is accepted by WC apologists.
There is sufficient proof of FBI intervention. One, insertion; changing newspaper story in Times Herald. Two, substitution; the Minox camera fraud .3) Destruction; where are Sandra O’Conner’s color autopsy photos?: FBI also presents a photocopy as an original evidence. The Oswald money order only exists as a photograph copy .

The Warren Commission lawyers investigating Jack Ruby; Leon D. Hubert Jr. and Burt W. Griffin sent a memo to J. Lee Rankin on May 14, 1964 listing “Areas Not Adequately Investigated.” Much of the Ruby intelligence is not investigated in Dallas, rather gathered and reported by FBI to Washington D.C. commission.. One of the problems is, of course the FBI and J Edgar Hoover thinks that there's no such thing as organized crime and so the mob implications, Ruby attempts to buy Jeeps for Cuba, Ruby seen in casinos in Havana are never followed up. Indeed the European press reporting on the assassination is inclusive with organized crime. And excluded from the Warren Commission.Many avenues of investigation are limited to the prosecutorial presentation of the WC. The Dallas investigation is shallow by design. Does Oswald drive or not. He was issued a drivers license.

When I visited Dealey Plaza on the 22^nd, many locals volunteered their opinion that there was a conspiracy. Everyone said Ruby knows Oswald. The police let Ruby into the basement.. Everyone knew someone that knew Ruby or saw Oswald or a policeman.
In light of that statement. Enjoy this choice bit from Robert Oswald’s book. A surprising story.

[FISHY1118]

What a Shamful act of Treason by Bugliosi ,trying to convince the world of lone assassin while all the time disrespecting the memories of all those who spoke the truth .

[GBinOz]

This is interesting. The WC disproving their own theory?

[FISHY1118]

This is interesting. The WC disproving their own theory?

I've seen that exact pic recently George , thanks for posting it.

Tells us a lot about the Warren Commission doesn't it.

[GBinOz]

Third…you honestly don’t have to bother answering it’s my intention not to post on this subject again (if I can show a little will power)
It seems to me I've heard that song before.

Fourth…you say that nothing will change my mind as if I’m being bloody-minded whilst the conspiracy side are the open minded ones. I’d accuse the conspiracy side of being bloody minded. Of starting out from a position of conspiracy and then seeing everything in terms of it.
I wonder if saying that nothing will change your mind could be considered and unfair assessment? I have changed my mind, including recently, based on an examination of the medical, ballistic, witness and film evidence, but excluding lawyer double talk.

Ill finish by saying….all of those wider questions that I put to you….not one single poster has ever answered but, more importantly, no matter how confident conspiracy supporters on here claim to be, I have TWICE asked them to tell us what they actually believe…Oswald plus GK gunman, Unknown 6th floor gunman plus GK gunman, gunman firing from elsewhere and GK gunman, not one of them had the courage of their convictions to state something so simple.
With regard to your tick the box answers - none of the above.

Anyone would think that they were uncomfortable with scrutiny.

I think they are uncomfortable with having to endlessly refute debunked replies.

IMO there was a conspiracy to assassinate Kennedy, involving multiple shooting teams and including the provision of a patsy, by parties who would benefit from Kennedy's removal. The method involved countdown shots (synchronised similar to the 21 gun salute method) and probably some suppressed rifles. There was a separate cover up, to avoid an international incident, aimed at limiting the investigations only to the patsy.

IMO there were 3 shots from the sniper's nest by Malcolm Wallace using the Carcano - The Tague shot to draw attention, and 2 shots that hit Connolly.

I think there was a shot from the rear using a projectile that had previously been fired through the Carcano and was fired thought a 30 calibre rifle using a sabot and possibly a suppresser. This caused the shallow wound, with no exit, in Kennedy's back about 5 inches below the shoulder line.

I think there were 2 shots from the south knoll, the throat shot through the windscreen, and the fatal head shot, using frangible projectiles. On repeatedly watching the Zapruder film, I am considering that there may have been an almost simultaneous head shot from Wallace that may have also hit Connally.

I think that there was at least one shot from the Grassy knoll using a 45 calibre weapon, that missed, possibly deliberately to avoid hitting Jackie.

So Herlock, that's my opinion at this stage. I don't expect a reply as I am confident your will power will prevail.