JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[scottnapa]

There were the 7 commissioners/ a General Counsel/ 14 Assistant Counsels/ 12 Staff members.

They weren’t called investigators but that’s what they were, investigators/researchers. Many had areas of specialism like finance.

There no doubt that the FBI and the CIA hid stuff, or tried to hide stuff. This doesn’t mean that the commission itself was corrupt though.

It doesn’t matter how mangy of them there are. As you know few of the commissioners attended hearings. No one from the commission was in the field investigating. This is an error the HSCA realized and had proceeded accordingly. I do not claim corruption. I claim there is a clear agenda. A lot of the HSCA findings reveals an expected don’t ask don’t tell relationship between agencies and the WC. The FBI or CIA is not going to discuss AMLASH or Mexico City. Why would they. They determined what was relevant. Not all omissions or redactions are examples of malfeasance.
Thanks for jumping in to the conversation, I remember you suggested folks only read books that support their view. One clear example, would be the Warren Report. I think most picked up Case Closed to read as it was a big topic when released. Here is a book few have read. Making of the President 1964. Manchester starts with Dallas because the assassination made him President. Obviously a serious writer, he quotes an announcement broadcasted to the President’s airplane after it took flight to Washington. ON THE FLIGHT THE PARTY LEARNED THERE WAS NO CONSPIRACY, LEARNED OF IDENITY OF OSWALD AND HIS ARREST. There is no true transcript for this flight to examine currently, although Manchester had the transcript to quote from when he was taking notes. Pierre Salinger remembers the document as well. There are multiple versions of the edited transcript and the Clifton version from the General’s personal collection is longer than others.

[Herlock Sholmes]

It doesn’t matter how mangy of them there are. As you know few of the commissioners attended hearings. No one from the commission was in the field investigating. This is an error the HSCA realized and had proceeded accordingly. I do not claim corruption. I claim there is a clear agenda. A lot of the HSCA findings reveals an expected don’t ask don’t tell relationship between agencies and the WC. The FBI or CIA is not going to discuss AMLASH or Mexico City. Why would they. They determined what was relevant. Not all omissions or redactions are examples of malfeasance.
Thanks for jumping in to the conversation, I remember you suggested folks only read books that support their view. One clear example, would be the Warren Report. I think most picked up Case Closed to read as it was a big topic when released. Here is a book few have read. Making of the President 1964. Manchester starts with Dallas because the assassination made him President. Obviously a serious writer, he quotes an announcement broadcasted to the President’s airplane after it took flight to Washington. ON THE FLIGHT THE PARTY LEARNED THERE WAS NO CONSPIRACY, LEARNED OF IDENITY OF OSWALD AND HIS ARREST. There is no true transcript for this flight to examine currently, although Manchester had the transcript to quote from when he was taking notes. Pierre Salinger remembers the document as well. There are multiple versions of the edited transcript and the Clifton version from the General’s personal collection is longer than others.

The Commissioners attendance varied from person to person. I used to have a list of their attendance records but i deleted the file. There was definitely a level of ‘a**e covering’ from the FBI and CIA but none of this points to a covering up of any link with Oswald and any conspiracy. Shenon goes into a lot of detail about it in his book and how councils were often coming up against brick walls and less than enthusiastic cooperation. Why would Warren, known for his live of JFK and the Kennedy family have presided over a Commission with a prearranged conclusion. Yes, of course the conclusion that Oswald killed Kennedy was already proven beyond all doubt, so basically they were just checking for mistakes in the investigation. I can’t think of a single criminal in history against whom there was just so much evidence. He wasn’t just guilty, he was GUILTY. Glaringly so. Obviously so. They could have convicted and hanged Oswald in 1963 safe in the knowledge that they had the right man.

The first fear for the government was that the assassination might be a plot connected in some way to the Soviet Union which again begs the obvious question of ‘why Oswald?’ Why a man who, by common knowledge, had defected to that very country? This would have made him the poorest choice possible for any conspirators.

[Doctored Whatsit]

It doesn’t matter how mangy of them there are. As you know few of the commissioners attended hearings. No one from the commission was in the field investigating.

It is true that some of the commissioners missed some of the meetings, but the commissioners were just well-known influential figures intended to give the commission some sort of integrity or gravitas. They were primarily figureheads to discuss and consider the information provided by their appointed team who certainly did investigate "in the field".

As well as studying all documentary evidence from the Secret Service, the FBI, CIA, and Dallas police, they identified the fact that some evidence had been withheld, and obtained it. They viewed both murder sites, interviewed numerous witnesses, and carried out various key tests. For example, they tested the claim that Oswald couldn't have easily descended to the second floor before the police officer arrived there, and found that he could do so. They also tested the claim that witnesses on the fifth floor heard the sounds of the rifle above being re-loaded, and the spent shells hitting the floor, because there was no evidence provided that anyone else had done this. They found to their surprise that they could hear everything with clarity.

They even found an additional witness that had seen Oswald kill Tippit. Domingo Benavides witnessed the killing, went to the police car to try to summon police to the scene using their radio, and found the spent shells that Oswald had thrown in the bushes, giving them to the police. His name did not appear in anything produced for the commission by Dallas police, or the FBI.

[Fiver]

In the words of Dr Joseph Dolce, the US Army’s most senior expert in wound ballistics, “one bullet striking the President’s neck, the Governor’s chest and wrist, should be badly deformed, as our experiments at the Edgewood Arsenal proved.” Dr Dolce was not called to testify before the Warren Commission.

BOOMMMMMM !!!!!!!!!! Game over folks


It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is. It doesn't matter how smart you are . If it doesn't agree with experiment, its wrong'' . Richard Feynman .

"I feel that the sequence of the bullets is as follows:

1- The first bullet went through JFK's neck and this is the so-called pristine bullet

2- The second bullet went through Governor Connaley's [sic] chest and wrist and the film clearly demonstrates that Connaley's wrist was against his chest wall. I feel that this is the bullet that is missing

3- The third bullet struck JFK in the head and one fragment of this bullet struck Connaley in the left thigh and also struck the windshield of the car

I feel that Oswald was the sole assassin who fired the three shots." - Dr Joseph Dolce.

Dolce, like Connally, believed Oswald was the lone assassin.

Dr Joseph Dolce was not the US Army's most senior expert in wound ballistics. He was a Consultant to the Biophysics Division at Edgewood Arsenal, a civilian reporting to Doctors Olivier and Dzimean, who did testify to the Warren Commission.

[Fiver]

Not even close .

Dr. Humes gave his views on the C399 bullet during the Warren Commission hearings, more commonly by some as the “Magic Bullet” :

“I think that is most unlikely. … This missile is basically intact; its jacket appears to me to be intact, and I do not understand how it could possibly have left fragments in either of those locations. … I doubt if this missile would have left behind it any metallic fragments from its physical appearance at this time. … Metallic fragments were not removed and are still present in Governor Connally’s thigh. I can’t conceive of where they came from this missile (C399). (WCR vol.2, pp374–76.)

Here we have Dr. Humes, head of the JFK autopsy, casting his doubts that the Magic Bullet (C399), that caused injuries to Connally. So the C399 bullet could easily be accepted as the C399 bullet by simply causing a shallow back wound in Kennedy. The reason why the C399 bullet is so central to this case, is that it was fired from the Carcano C2677 rifle, allegedly belonging to Oswald.

The rifle definitely belonged to Oswald. I have already outlined the evidence, which has stood up to repeated testing, including by methods that didn't exist in 1963.

Dr Humes was one of the Bethesda autopsy doctors. If a Conspiracy exists, Humes had to be part of it.

Did he not get the bullet memo from Conspiracy, Inc?

[Fiver]

Landis stated he placed the rear seat bullet on the President’s gurney when he entered the trauma room folling Mrs. Kennedy.

I have already shown this contradicts Landis' 1963 statement.

"Most of the time while in the hospital I stayed right next to Mrs. Kennedy. Twice, I believe, she went into the Room where the President was; however, I remained outside by the door. A short time later I still remember several people standing around, and I asked a doctor for help in clearing the area." - Statement of Special Agent Paul E. Landis, Jr

[Fiver]

The WCR never reported on the Edgewoo Arsenal Bullet Tests.

Incorrect.

Here is the testimony of Dr. Alfred G. Olivier, Chief of the Wound Ballistics Branch at Edgewood Arsenal.

Here is the testimony of Arthur J. Dziemian, physiologist at the U.S. Army Chemical Research and Development Laboratories, and chief of the Biophysics Division at Edgewood Arsenal.

[Fiver]

Here an FBI agent testimony is altered to hide the fact that the FBI had illegal custody of evidence (Negating it's validity in any court of law.)

The linked picture says nothing about the legality of FBI custody and proves nothing about the chain of possession.

[Fiver]

Yes. I misspoke. The issue with the PO Box is that A. Hidell is not listed as a receiver of mail.

How is A. Hidell is being listed as a receiver of for that PO Box an issue?

[Fiver]

Your claim to pretend you and only you can interpret this fact, is a lack of intellectual integrity than can be a trend in your responses. I would prefer that if you don't know so say so. Your best guess is just pasting spackle in the hole in the wall.

So when you can't refute my points, you resort to personal attacks.

Lets look at what you actually said.

The issues with the rifle are related to ordering and use. It should never have been shipped to a P O Box. It was paid for by a money order for $21.45 dated March 12.1963. The money order was cashed on February 15th.

You stated as a fact that the "money order was cashed on February 15th".

Waldman Exhibit 10 shows an itemized form dated 3-13-63 for a total deposit of $13,827.98. It also shows a summary labeled EXTRA COPY for a total deposit of $13,827.98 dated 2-13-63.

If the 2-13-63 is correct, then dozens of money orders were cashed before they were issued, not just Oswald's money order. Obviously, this makes no sense. Neither Oswald's money nor the dozens of other money orders could have been cashed before they were issued.

Clearly the 3-13-63 date is correct and the 2-13-63 date is an error.

This is evidence that a date was written wrong once, not evidence of a Conspiracy or that the rifle did not belong to Oswald.

[Fiver]

I am listing successful assassinations

That is not what you said.

Here it is again, since you seem to have forgotten.

Assassination is to a video game. Can you hit the target is only a small portion of the act.
Assassinating the most important person in the world is an act of "suicide" Your life is over. My boss has a wife and two kids. He would have to think long and hard about as killing a president and would be dooming his wife and children to hate abuse, ridicule and potentially physical violence. Oswald is the ONLY American assassin who used a rifle.

You didn't specify successful, you said American.

You are correct that it take more than skill, it takes the right mental attitude. But your list of reasons is mostly false and almost entirely irrelevant.

* Oswald was not the "ONLY American assassin" to use a rifle.
* Oswald was not the "ONLY American assassin" with a wife and children.
* Oswald was not the "ONLY American assassin" who claimed he was not responsible.
* Oswald was not the "ONLY American assassin" to make a unique statement.
* Oswald was not the "ONLY American assassin" was in the military.

Having a wife and children was the only one of your reasons that had any bearing on the assassin's mental attitude. And it wasn't enough to dissuade Di Giovanni, Collazo, or Torresola.

[Fiver]

Oswald learned Russian and then Oswald the Marine "defected".

By putting defected in quotes, you are saying Oswald's defection was fake. Feel free to supply any evidence that supports your theory.

[Fiver]

This faux suicide, reflects back to your rather insincere demand for proof of spying, when secrecy is the nature of spying.

So you're claiming that the lack of any evidence of LHO working for any intelligence service is proof that LHO worked for an intelligence service?

[Fiver]

The guy at the Embassy wasn’t an imposter. He was a man who was mistakenly identified. This has been explained in detail.

Exactly. Ruth Paine and Marina Oswald saw a letter LHO mailed to the Soviet Embassy in November 9. In the letter he mentioned his trip to Mexico. If Oswald didn’t make the trip, then both women, as well as the Soviet government had to be part of the Conspiracy. We have both the typed final letter and the handwritten draft. The handwriting was authenticated, which requires even more Conspirators.

That’s before we consider that the Conspiracy gains nothing from faking an Oswald trip to Mexico.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Exactly. Ruth Paine and Marina Oswald saw a letter LHO mailed to the Soviet Embassy in November 9. In the letter he mentioned his trip to Mexico. If Oswald didn’t make the trip, then both women, as well as the Soviet government had to be part of the Conspiracy. We have both the typed final letter and the handwritten draft. The handwriting was authenticated, which requires even more Conspirators.

That’s before we consider that the Conspiracy gains nothing from faking an Oswald trip to Mexico.

It makes no sense Fiver. Again we are asked to accept that these conspirators were idiots. I’ll ask you a question…

What would be the first rule of finding a suitable candidate as an imposter who you intended to send to an embassy that would absolutely undoubtedly have security cameras?