Schwartz v. Lawende

[Jon Guy]

Hello Jon,

Interestingly theory! I have given it much thought, however, it seems to me that it is not very probable, although obviously not physically impossible!

Sorry, John, it`s a silly theory.
I`d forgotten about the cachous.
She wasn`t going to climb anywhere with them in her hand.

[John G]

Well Swanson states that Kozminski was watched by City police, so this seems most likely. Cox gives a lengthy report on the man he watched and followed with Black Curly hair...

We know that the family were later in business together near St Pauls and it seems reasonable to speculate that they had a business together before this in 1888.... If Cox is correct his 'little shop' probably on the corner of Wentworth and Castle Alley..... This would also tie with Reids theory of the man who drank at the princess Alice and lived near Berner Street..

But the key lays in the Kalish community... Morris was a boot maker, Issac a Taylor and Goulders father had been a Butcher...

'He occupied several premises in the area'

Was Aaron Kozminski the man who hadn't worked in years kept busy doing odd jobs? Delivering pet food, cleaning out, a night watchman would be well known and not suspected...

The Mad Snob?

Yours Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the reply. I must admit I haven't followed a great deal of the more recent research into Kosminski-I really must get round to buying Rob House's book!

[John G]

Sorry, John, it`s a silly theory.
I`d forgotten about the cachous.
She wasn`t going to climb anywhere with them in her hand.

Hello Jon,

Yes, the theory is clearly highly speculative, just like any theory that fails to take into account the cachous problem!

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the reply. I must admit I haven't followed a great deal of the more recent research into Kosminski-I really must get round to buying Rob House's book!

I can recommend 'Prime Suspect' as one of the best books ever written on the subject of Jack the Ripper. Theres been some new discoveries like Kozminski's where abouts in 1888 since...

Of particular interest is Robs Batty Street chapter which really got people thinking about Kozminski being under police suspicion very early on and not later in 1890-91.....

But once you figure out MAcNAughten and Anderson are describing different events I believe the mystery of why the policeman who investigated the murders apparently disagreed, slots into place.

Of course it still doesn't answer the question whether or not Kozminski was Jack the Ripper, only why Anderson and Swanson believed him to be...

Yours Jeff

[Elamarna]

Hi Lynn,

What do you think of Tom's remarks in Post 350? If I've understood him correctly, he seems to have concluded that Stride's body position indicates that she was attacked whilst facing the wall of the club, rather than whilst trying to exist the yard.

There are I think two very obvious explanations and a third less obvious to this.

1. she was reliving herself, or planed to, so turn towards the wall.
2. she was about to take part in a sex act, and turned to prepare for this.

or

3. BS man was not her killer, she got up, went into the yard, turned away from the possible gaze of the street and looked to examine herself for any injuries from the previous assault/attackand to rearrange her clothing.

steve

[Jon Guy]

There are I think two very obvious explanations and a third less obvious to this.

1. she was reliving herself, or planed to, so turn towards the wall.
2. she was about to take part in a sex act, and turned to prepare for this.

or

.. she was forced down to her left side by the killer

[John G]

There are I think two very obvious explanations and a third less obvious to this.

1. she was reliving herself, or planed to, so turn towards the wall.
2. she was about to take part in a sex act, and turned to prepare for this.

or

3. BS man was not her killer, she got up, went into the yard, turned away from the possible gaze of the street and looked to examine herself for any injuries from the previous assault/attackand to rearrange her clothing.

steve

Hello Steve,

I think that the first and second explanation would also make BS man an unlikely candidate for her killer: after all, would she be likely to enter the pitch black darkness of Dutfield's Yard, for a sexual purpose, with a man who had just assaulted her? And would she be likely to voluntarily turn her back on such a man, particularly as she must have been well aware of the Ripper scare, and clearly wasn't in the same desperate situation as Nichols and Chapman?

[John G]

.. she was forced down to her left side by the killer

Hello Jon,


Yes, this is possible. But is it likely, in this scenario, that her feet would end up facing the street? Wouldn't she have had to be spun round for this to have happened?

[Elamarna]

Hello Steve,

I think that the first and second explanation would also make BS man an unlikely candidate for her killer: after all, would she be likely to enter the pitch black darkness of Dutfield's Yard, for a sexual purpose, with a man who had just assaulted her? And would she be likely to voluntarily turn her back on such a man, particularly as she must have been well aware of the Ripper scare, and clearly wasn't in the same desperate situation as Nichols and Chapman?

Agreed, I did not mean to imply that BS was a candidate for the first 2 options, but rereading what I wrote that is the impression given, I was suggesting that her checking herself was more unlikely than the other 2.

Steve

[Jon Guy]

Yes, this is possible. But is it likely, in this scenario, that her feet would end up facing the street?

What do you mean by her feet were facing the street ?

She was lying on her side, her face was near the wall, as was her knees, which were drawn up, in foetus position.

Which way were her feet facing?

[Jeff Leahy]

What do you mean by her feet were facing the street ?

She was lying on her side, her face was near the wall, as was her knees, which were drawn up, in foetus position.

Which way were her feet facing?

If Stride regained consciousness its possible she drew herself into the Foetus position?

[Jon Guy]

If Stride regained consciousness its possible she drew herself into the Foetus position?

Hi Jeff

Yes, I have no doubt she drew herself into that position.

[John G]

What do you mean by her feet were facing the street ?

She was lying on her side, her face was near the wall, as was her knees, which were drawn up, in foetus position.

Which way were her feet facing?

Hello Jon,

I should have said that her feet were facing the gate, which might indicate that she was attempting to exit the Yard: see post 327

[John G]

If Stride regained consciousness its possible she drew herself into the Foetus position?

Hello Jeff,

But is there any proof that she was rendered unconscious by her killer?

[Jon Guy]

Hello Jon,

I should have said that her feet were facing the gate, which might indicate that she was attempting to exit the Yard: see post 327

We don`t know which way her feet were pointing, John, or do we ? Considering her position I would say her feet would be pointing towards the wall or thereabouts.

Even if her feet were pointing towards the street, it probably means that she was manhandled into whatever position suited her killer.