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  • Originally posted by DJA View Post

    You are making that up.

    Any proof at all.

    There was one French import in 1888 and it was very new.It is an ancient medicine used as an astringent and breath freshener.

    There was liquorice "something" cake at the time.A much larger sweet.Might have started with "P".
    Is this a fresh new approach to ripperology - to claim that people make things up? First Herlock and now you? The issue of the cachous has been discussed out here numerous times, and although many beleive that cachous were always synonymous with the Lajaunie variant from France, this is not so.

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    • Anyway, I think this will have to do for me for now, and so I am once more off to hide from Herlocks onslaught. Not.

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      • Originally posted by DJA View Post

        You are making that up.

        Any proof at all.

        There was one French import in 1888 and it was very new.It is an ancient medicine used as an astringent and breath freshener.

        There was liquorice "something" cake at the time.A much larger sweet.Might have started with "P".
        Pontefract cake??

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        • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
          Indeed. Furthermore, an ordinary person might have called them throat sweets or cough drops, in which case they could have been of the cheapest variety. The somewhat grand word "cachous" was, after all, a description by a middle-class doctor. I'm reminded of Lord Mandelson who, on visiting a chip shop, apparently saw some mushy peas and asked if he could have "some of that guacamole".

          Incidentally, re Dave's suggestion that cachous were quite new in 1888, the OED shows that they'd been around for just over 200 years by then, albeit in variant spellings:

          Click image for larger version Name:	Cachous.jpg Views:	0 Size:	17.3 KB ID:	723365

          ... and not necessarily from France, even if the word itself is. That said, the "Spanish" here might refer to licorice, as it was sometimes known as "Spanish root", or just "Spanish" (it's what we used to call it when I was a kid, as it happens).
          As mentioned before,the medication/breath freshener has been around for thousands of years.

          Returns as a fad, usually marked by marketing and packaging.

          Such was the case with Cachou Lajaunie,a formulation from 1880 which was marketed from 1890 in a small yellow tin designed by a watchmaker.

          If anyone locates evidence of cachous being marketed in London 1888,I would be very,very interested.
          My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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          • Originally posted by Ms Diddles View Post

            Pontefract cake??
            Winner,winner,chicken dinner!

            Thanks.

            Pontefract ( Pomfret ) Liquorice Cakes | An Educated Palate
            Last edited by DJA; 09-26-2019, 06:59 PM.
            My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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            • Originally posted by Fisherman View Post

              What save are you talking about? The pills were described as sweetmeats by people who saw them, and "cachous" can be either strong breath pills - or flower scented, mild tablets.
              Read his/her quotes carefully Fisherman, they are full of baloney, close to propaganda, for the most part. Don't be surprised, be annoyed like the rest of us.
              Michael Richards

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              • Originally posted by DJA View Post

                If anyone locates evidence of cachous being marketed in London 1888,I would be very,very interested.
                If you look at the link:

                https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...ture-401023413

                ...you will find an auction site selling an 1870:s tin with the text "Hoopers Cachou Aromatise London Bridge".

                Surely? Or?

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                • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

                  Read his/her quotes carefully Fisherman, they are full of baloney, close to propaganda, for the most part. Don't be surprised, be annoyed like the rest of us.
                  Whose? The term was in the contemporary papers, Michael, like the Evening News of October 1 1888:

                  "In her right hand were tightly clasped some grapes, and in her left she held a number of sweetmeats."

                  I donīt find that annoying. I find it factually interesting.

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                  • Originally posted by Fisherman View Post

                    No, I am not. It is you who are incorrect, trying to employ what was aimed at other matters on whether Phillips could tell very broadly or not whether a person was recently or long dead. He could, and he did, and that rules out the 5.30 witnesses.
                    Hi Fisherman,

                    You yourself noted you could not tell if I was alive or dead based upon the feel of my cold and warm hand in post 1782, "True, Jeff: I could not determine whether you are alive or dead by feeling your hands for warmth after you have had them sunk into icy and hot water, respectively."

                    My hands would be warm / cold respectively, not due to whether I'm alive (so no ToD) or dead (in which case there is a ToD), but because of the influence of the environment my hands were in on the surface skin temperature that you feel. I'm sure we both agree on that. Now, you admit that you could not even determine if there was a ToD based upon feeling skin temperatures of my hands due to the influence of the environment. If you cannot even determine if there was a ToD, it therefore follows that one cannot determine the more precise value of what that ToD is.

                    - Jeff

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                    • Anyway, enough is enough, and now I really have to go.

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                      • 1858 to 1891 tin.

                        Surely.

                        Thanks.
                        My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JeffHamm View Post

                          Hi Fisherman,

                          You yourself noted you could not tell if I was alive or dead based upon the feel of my cold and warm hand in post 1782, "True, Jeff: I could not determine whether you are alive or dead by feeling your hands for warmth after you have had them sunk into icy and hot water, respectively."

                          My hands would be warm / cold respectively, not due to whether I'm alive (so no ToD) or dead (in which case there is a ToD), but because of the influence of the environment my hands were in on the surface skin temperature that you feel. I'm sure we both agree on that. Now, you admit that you could not even determine if there was a ToD based upon feeling skin temperatures of my hands due to the influence of the environment. If you cannot even determine if there was a ToD, it therefore follows that one cannot determine the more precise value of what that ToD is.

                          - Jeff
                          And then THIS arrives, and I have to extend my visit one more time!

                          Yes, your hands would be telling a story about the environment they had been in, just like Chapmans body would do in Hanbury Street. You seem to have gotten tangled up in your own thinking, taking it as useful, which it is not. I have said a zillion times that I or anybody else cannot establish the precise TOD using either hand palpation or thermometer. But that does not equal that I cannot tell if a body has been long dead or if it is a case of recent death.
                          If the body is in a temperature of nine degrees, like Chapmans body was, and if it is quite warm to the touch, then I can say with 100 per cent certainty that death is not far removed in time, unless you have bee around with your bucket of hot water. Equally if the body is cold to the touch, I can say with 100 per cent certainty that death is not very close in time.
                          That is not to say that I can establish the exact temperatures by feeling the body, because that is impossible to do, although a trained medico will certainly be able to get close if death is not very far away in time.

                          Once again, extrapolating the fact that hand palpation is less safe than thermometer reading into a belief that a doctor cannot tell warm bodies from cold ones is not a clever thing to do. Just because we cannot kill tigers with fly-swatters, that does not mean that we cannot kill moths and flies with it. Although a method can be unreliable to a degree in some respects, that does not mean that the same method must ALWAYS be unreliable.

                          But I believe I have told you all of this before. It seems it is more a quetion of you putting your hands over your ears, chanting away.

                          Bye now.

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                          • Originally posted by Fisherman View Post

                            Whose? The term was in the contemporary papers, Michael, like the Evening News of October 1 1888:

                            "In her right hand were tightly clasped some grapes, and in her left she held a number of sweetmeats."

                            I donīt find that annoying. I find it factually interesting.
                            Yet not one person found any trace of any of that....hmm. Not in her system either. Don't be Packered Fish.
                            Michael Richards

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DJA View Post
                              1858 to 1891 tin.

                              Surely.

                              Thanks.
                              Yes? And if it was around in 1858 to 1891, what is the reason for it NOT being around specifically in 1888?

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                              • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

                                Yet not one person found any trace of any of that....hmm. Not in her system either. Don't be Packered Fish.
                                Eh...what are you on about? Do you think they searched Lizī system for candy?

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