Chapman’s death.

[jmenges]

As much as I’m enjoying this threads turn towards a discussion of the music of John Prine, I’ve had multiple report posts. None of them, thankfully, having to do with John Prine, as I’m sure you know that’s an immediate 1 year ban...I swear I saw that rule around here somewhere.

So I’m closing this one for a while and you all can go find another thread to throw shouts and insults at each other.

I’m partial to ‘Common Sense’ and ‘In Spite of Ourselves’.

JM

[FISHY1118]

Good to see you've accepted that it was neither the killer or Annie Chapmans body that made the noise codosch claimed hit the fence at 5.28 am.

And that indeed the killer was on Chapmans right hand side when he cut her throat[ you worked out it cant be dont from her left hand side didn't you ha ha] from left to right , as Gavin Bromley rightfully suggested,

If the “no” came from Annie then I’d tend toward the fact that she said it before she died, yes.

you said this

a) The ‘no’ didn’t have to have been the start of the attack. It’s a word. It can be used in many contexts and in answer to a billion questions.

and then this . ..... oh dear

[Herlock Sholmes]

Has it been proven that she was strangled? I’m not saying that she wasn’t of course but I wasn’t aware that this was a proven fact.
The Coroner: We will postpone that for the present. You can give your opinion as to how the death was caused.
Witness: From these appearances I am of opinion that the breathing was interfered with previous to death, and that death arose from syncope, or failure of the heart's action, in consequence of the loss of blood caused by the severance of the throat.

so lets agree at least she was rendered unconscious and placed on the ground before her throat was cut ?

No problem

If the “no” came from Annie then I’d tend toward the fact that she said it before she died, yes.

Again, so that being the case then the noise that codosch heard hit the fence, came six minutes ''after'' she was killed. i conclude therefor it was not Annie Chapmans dead body that hit the fence as she was dead on the ground long before codosch heard the noise, and to suggest that any part of her body somehow was pushed, moved, or any other way she could have hit the fence after death is just in the realms of impossibility.

My congratulations on squeezing so much nonsense into such a small space.

a) The ‘no’ didn’t have to have been the start of the attack. It’s a word. It can be used in many contexts and in answer to a billion questions.
b) Where do you get 6 minutes from. Plus remember what I’ve told you about times and the problems with taking them to be exact?
c) This is genius. To say that it would be in the realms of impossibility for the killer to have brushed against the fence is just laughable. I can’t believe that I get criticised when I and other reasonable posters are constantly faced with pathetic drivel like this!

Errata is suggesting that the killer knelt above Annie’s head to do the mutilations. Unlike you Errata isn’t claiming to be psychic. He/she is suggesting a possibility.
Unlike him i suggested that the killer cut Annie Chapman throat while he was on her right hand side and not her left, between her and the fence. i dont recall saying anything about the mutilation ........... yet.

You cannot know where he was. You weren’t there.

so as there was no response from you herlock i will now say you have agreed with the above .... done.... now then

Im trying to wean myself from discussing the case with the terminally illogical.

1. the '' no'' was right before the attack on Chapman

2. she was unconscious as she was placed on the ground

3. her throat was cut from left to right [ fact]

4. the killer did this on her right hand side ... NOT BETWEEN HER AND THE FENCE

5. NOW REMEMBER IM TALKING ABOUT THE CUTTING OF THE THROAT ONLY, NOT THE OTHER MUTILATIONS

6. Chapmans body could not have been the noise hitting the fence six minutes later after the ''no'' according to codosch, the killer did not move her , push her, kick her ,shove her, or anything else to make her hit the fence .

7 the killer could not have made the noise that codosch heard hit the fence while on chapmans right side cutting her throat .

8. it is well accepted that the killer was right handed


the killer couldn't or it would be a very unnatural act to hold Chapman chin and cut her throat from left to right if he was on her left hand side between her and the fence.



You realized he couldn't have done it, didn't you herlock

GAME ,SET, MATCH , YOU'VE LOST .


Are you six?

If only you had the debating skills of a six year old.

As usual, a waste of time.

TOD beyond all reasonable doubt 5.25/5.30 and she was killed where she was found and Sir William Gull wasn’t involved.

Goodnight.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Is this really the sneering, disrespectful type of engagement which will advance constructive discussion of the Whitechapel murders,?

It really annoys me when a thread descends into such a negative discourse that it is almost impossible to remember what it was ever about in the first place.

There have been numerous attempts by posters such as Paulb and others to try and get it back on track, with little success.

I'm going to stick a John Prine album on Now.

Everything will soon be fine.

It’s about as good as it gets from him I’m afraid Barn.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Usual pedantic nonsense from you.

You spend most of your time adding nothing and flaming people. Then you threaten to run to Daddy.

YOU ARE PATHETIC,BEYOND BELIEF!

Report me. Jon isn't blind,or stupid.

My support for Fishy's post remains steadfast.

What the hell is wrong with you?

You tried to be smug by mocking me through backing Fishy’s point. To continue to back it after I actually posted what he’d said beggars belief. He denied saying what he said. I showed that he’d said it. What’s pedantic about that?

I don’t threaten to run to anyone. That’s why I specifically made the point if you tried reading before spouting your anger filled nonsense. I was pointing out the you’re the one making the personal insults to me and I still haven’t reported you.

Perhaps I should. At least if you got kicked off the quality of discussion and debate would go up.

Try discussing the case and stop participating in this unhealthy obsession with whatever I post. It’s like having 2 Baron’s. Grow up.

[barnflatwyngarde]

Common Sense.

Nice one!

My favourite is Fair and Square, with the great version of Clay Pigeons.

[DJA]

I'm going to stick a John Prine album on Now.

Common Sense.

[barnflatwyngarde]

Is this really the sneering, disrespectful type of engagement which will advance constructive discussion of the Whitechapel murders,?

It really annoys me when a thread descends into such a negative discourse that it is almost impossible to remember what it was ever about in the first place.

There have been numerous attempts by posters such as Paulb and others to try and get it back on track, with little success.

I'm going to stick a John Prine album on Now.

Everything will soon be fine.

Apologies for the bold type face.

Not entirely sure how that happened, but I wasn't shouting.

Honest!

[barnflatwyngarde]

Has it been proven that she was strangled? I’m not saying that she wasn’t of course but I wasn’t aware that this was a proven fact.
The Coroner: We will postpone that for the present. You can give your opinion as to how the death was caused.
Witness: From these appearances I am of opinion that the breathing was interfered with previous to death, and that death arose from syncope, or failure of the heart's action, in consequence of the loss of blood caused by the severance of the throat.

so lets agree at least she was rendered unconscious and placed on the ground before her throat was cut ?

If the “no” came from Annie then I’d tend toward the fact that she said it before she died, yes.

Again, so that being the case then the noise that codosch heard hit the fence, came six minutes ''after'' she was killed. i conclude therefor it was not Annie Chapmans dead body that hit the fence as she was dead on the ground long before codosch heard the noise, and to suggest that any part of her body somehow was pushed, moved, or any other way she could have hit the fence after death is just in the realms of impossibility.

Errata is suggesting that the killer knelt above Annie’s head to do the mutilations. Unlike you Errata isn’t claiming to be psychic. He/she is suggesting a possibility.
Unlike him i suggested that the killer cut Annie Chapman throat while he was on her right hand side and not her left, between her and the fence. i dont recall saying anything about the mutilation ........... yet.

so as there was no response from you herlock i will now say you have agreed with the above .... done.... now then

1. the '' no'' was right before the attack on Chapman

2. she was unconscious as she was placed on the ground

3. her throat was cut from left to right [ fact]

4. the killer did this on her right hand side ... NOT BETWEEN HER AND THE FENCE

5. NOW REMEMBER IM TALKING ABOUT THE CUTTING OF THE THROAT ONLY, NOT THE OTHER MUTILATIONS

6. Chapmans body could not have been the noise hitting the fence six minutes later after the ''no'' according to codosch, the killer did not move her , push her, kick her ,shove her, or anything else to make her hit the fence .

7 the killer could not have made the noise that codosch heard hit the fence while on chapmans right side cutting her throat .

8. it is well accepted that the killer was right handed


the killer couldn't or it would be a very unnatural act to hold Chapman chin and cut her throat from left to right if he was on her left hand side between her and the fence.



You realized he couldn't have done it, didn't you herlock

GAME ,SET, MATCH , YOU'VE LOST .

Is this really the sneering, disrespectful type of engagement which will advance constructive discussion of the Whitechapel murders,?

It really annoys me when a thread descends into such a negative discourse that it is almost impossible to remember what it was ever about in the first place.

There have been numerous attempts by posters such as Paulb and others to try and get it back on track, with little success.

I'm going to stick a John Prine album on Now.

Everything will soon be fine.

[PaulB]

What a weak statement..

Come to me when you can say something like:

- It is clear to the layman that Dr Phillip's estimate was widly off.



The Baron

It's not important whether the statement is weak or not, but thank you for drawing my attention to it. What matters is that what Jennifer Bucholtz wrote I no way refutes the arguments that Dr Phillips' estimated time of death was probably way off and that this was patiently pointed out to you, yet you paid it no attention and simply repeated the quote. What is also possibly relevant is that you seem more interested in point scoring than you do in establishing the facts. I'm not interested in point scoring, but I am interested in whether or not Dr Phillips' estimated time of death really does argue against the witness statements, and so far this car crash of a thread suggests that it doesn't.

[DJA]

They have internet in London Dave.

I’d like to draw everyone’s attention to this post because these things get ignored.

Firstly, on the topic.

• Fishy claimed for a fact (not an opinion) that Annie’s killer was on her right for the mutilations.
• I pointed out that he couldn’t say this as a fact.
• He denied that he’d ever said this as a fact
• I produced the post where he’d said this as a fact.

Dave then criticises and insults me as if I’ve gotten it wrong. This is par for the course.

Secondly of course, yet another personal insult which, yet again, I will not report even though I’m the devil incarnate according to Dave.


So to sum up:

• A dishonest statement
• A dishonest statement highlighted
• A dishonest statement denied
• A dishonest statement proved and confirmed
• A dishonest statement defended
• A personal insult thrown in

Pretty much sums up the way some posters operate.

Usual pedantic nonsense from you.

You spend most of your time adding nothing and flaming people. Then you threaten to run to Daddy.

YOU ARE PATHETIC,BEYOND BELIEF!

Report me. Jon isn't blind,or stupid.

My support for Fishy's post remains steadfast.

[FISHY1118]

Has it been proven that she was strangled? I’m not saying that she wasn’t of course but I wasn’t aware that this was a proven fact.
The Coroner: We will postpone that for the present. You can give your opinion as to how the death was caused.
Witness: From these appearances I am of opinion that the breathing was interfered with previous to death, and that death arose from syncope, or failure of the heart's action, in consequence of the loss of blood caused by the severance of the throat.

so lets agree at least she was rendered unconscious and placed on the ground before her throat was cut ?

If the “no” came from Annie then I’d tend toward the fact that she said it before she died, yes.

Again, so that being the case then the noise that codosch heard hit the fence, came six minutes ''after'' she was killed. i conclude therefor it was not Annie Chapmans dead body that hit the fence as she was dead on the ground long before codosch heard the noise, and to suggest that any part of her body somehow was pushed, moved, or any other way she could have hit the fence after death is just in the realms of impossibility.

Errata is suggesting that the killer knelt above Annie’s head to do the mutilations. Unlike you Errata isn’t claiming to be psychic. He/she is suggesting a possibility.
Unlike him i suggested that the killer cut Annie Chapman throat while he was on her right hand side and not her left, between her and the fence. i dont recall saying anything about the mutilation ........... yet.

so as there was no response from you herlock i will now say you have agreed with the above .... done.... now then

1. the '' no'' was right before the attack on Chapman

2. she was unconscious as she was placed on the ground

3. her throat was cut from left to right [ fact]

4. the killer did this on her right hand side ... NOT BETWEEN HER AND THE FENCE

5. NOW REMEMBER IM TALKING ABOUT THE CUTTING OF THE THROAT ONLY, NOT THE OTHER MUTILATIONS

6. Chapmans body could not have been the noise hitting the fence six minutes later after the ''no'' according to codosch, the killer did not move her , push her, kick her ,shove her, or anything else to make her hit the fence .

7 the killer could not have made the noise that codosch heard hit the fence while on chapmans right side cutting her throat .

8. it is well accepted that the killer was right handed


the killer couldn't or it would be a very unnatural act to hold Chapman chin and cut her throat from left to right if he was on her left hand side between her and the fence.



You realized he couldn't have done it, didn't you herlock

GAME ,SET, MATCH , YOU'VE LOST .

[The Baron]

It does seem to the layman that Dr Phillips' estimate could have been wildly off.

What a weak statement..

Come to me when you can say something like:

- It is clear to the layman that Dr Phillip's estimate was widly off.



The Baron

[Michael W Richards]

Eh...what are you on about? Do you think they searched Liz´ system for candy?

I believe I was responding to the grapes and stalk Fish.

[PaulB]

The Baron wrote this back in post 1683. There were replies (1685, 1687), and my own (1727), all of which he would seem to have missed. The tone of post 1683 suggested to me that The Baron was interested in scoring points rather than establishing the facts. It does seem to the layman that Dr Phillips' estimate could have been wildly off.