Kellys in the Scots Guards

[lynn cates]

alternately speaking

Hello Jon. You are correct about alternate names. But surely the correct version would be required for the military?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Very well, but if you interpolate the rest of the phrase, "known amongst his comrades as" it flows much less well.

Hi Lynn.
What it also suggests is, that his family still knew him as Henry, but only in the army could he choose to be known by his second name, John, like his father.

Incidently, alternate names, first names & surnames, was somewhat common in the military. I'm not surprised Henry Kelly cannot be found, disappointed yes, but soldiers and sailors used false names, even up to the 1st World War.
It is not suspicious, and certainly does not mean someone was lying, using alternate names was a fact of life. A fact that modern researchers need to take into account.

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

extended

Hello Debs. That's good to hear. I thought you meant "Take a break until some part of Barnett's story were confirmed."

That would be far too long a holiday. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hello Debs,
You are one of my favourite posters, you know. I look forward to reading every one. Please don't stay away too long. I'm going to miss you.
Carol

I'd second that!

Mum, dad...I told you not to ever post me on casebook!

Bless you both. x

Robert..yes, that is much funnier! I always forget jokes and punchlines.

I was only going to take a break from the Scots Guards for a while. There's some extreme ironing I need to take of.

[Robert]

Debs, it's funnier if you say "fart in a spacesuit" and yes, your posts are welcome and no, you mustn't take a break - unless it's to do some doughnuts?

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

I would like to know [not that anyone can tell me] why Mrs Elizabeth Phoenix, who made a statement at Leman Street police station on 11th November, was not called next day to the Kelly inquest.

She had far more intimate details of MJK's past life than did Barnett, yet hadn't mentioned the brother in the Scots Guards.

Regards,

Simon

[Cogidubnus]

You are one of my favourite posters, you know. I look forward to reading every one. Please don't stay away too long. I'm going to miss you.

I'd second that!

Dave

[lynn cates]

cover story

Hello Garry.

"From what I recall of Barnett's newspaper interviews, Lynn, I very much doubt that he ever read these letters."

I'm with you there. But having never met Johnto nor read his letters, why would MJ need a cover story?

Cheers.

LC

[Garry Wroe]

I was just interested to see that there is a nickname Jonto and it is connected to a certain surname-Johnston/Johnson as I wondered earlier.

Which to my mind is infinitely more plausible than the appellation Johnto being applied to someone named Henry Kelly. It would be interesting if someone could establish precisely when Kelly first made mention of 'Johnto'. If it was before the soldier's visit, it may well relate to her real brother and therefore indicate that her family name was Johnston or suchlike. If afterwards it might be a clue as to the real name of the soldier visitor.

Just a thought.

[Carol]

Thanks, Carol.
I was just interested to see that there is a nickname Jonto and it is connected to a certain surname-Johnston/Johnson as I wondered earlier.

I'm a bit fed up now to be honest and my posts seem to be about as welcome as a fart in a lift lately anyway. So I might have a little rest for a while now.
Nice talking to you though.

Hello Debs,
You are one of my favourite posters, you know. I look forward to reading every one. Please don't stay away too long. I'm going to miss you.
Carol

[Debra A]

Hello Debs!

I must say I admire your tenacity - and your seemingly unlimited energy!

Just like to say 'thank you' for all your hard work.

Carol

Thanks, Carol.
I was just interested to see that there is a nickname Jonto and it is connected to a certain surname-Johnston/Johnson as I wondered earlier.

I'm a bit fed up now to be honest and my posts seem to be about as welcome as a fart in a lift lately anyway. So I might have a little rest for a while now.
Nice talking to you though.

[Garry Wroe]

There are other versions in different newspapers. In some it is an interview given by Barnett, in others it is a 'full statement' given by Barnett-the statement mention might mean it was something revealed at the inquest?

I wish I could be of more help, but I honestly cannot recall the relevant source. All I can tell you is that I endeavoured wherever possible to cite the most reliable information, so you may be on to something with respect to the inquest reports. Sorry.

[Garry Wroe]

As far as I can recall, it isn't known for certain that Mary Kelly's father knew that she was working as a prostitute, is it?

Again, though, Archaic, we only have Kelly's word that the man who came looking for her really was her father. Personally, I think that this may be yet another of Kelly's fairytales.

Had it been true we would have to assume that Mr Kelly knew that his daughter was living in the East End under the name of Mary Kelly. So why did he not come forward when the news of Kelly's murder reached him and other family members?

Much like the visit of Johnto, it makes no logical sense.

My guess is that neither Kelly's father nor brother (if she had either) had any idea as to her whereabouts and had thus never visited her as claimed. In fact I doubt that her family name really was Kelly, which would explain why no family member or pre-London friend or acquaintance recognized her from the biographical information carried by the press at the time of her death. If I'm correct, any search for the Miller's Court victim under the name of Kelly is destined for failure. I'd like nothing better than to be proved wrong, but I don't see it happening.

[Carol]

Just to bore you all further:

Robert (Janto) Johnston, passed away suddenly on January 4.

09 Oct 1920 - THE GREAT LAKE FATALITY. INQUEST ON THE ...
trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11495638
Block all trove.nla.gov.au results
Tho clothing,was identified by Martin Mul- lins as having belonged to a male known as "Jonto" Johnson,

Enniskillen Rangers Football Club was founded in 1953. Rangers have won fifty trophies in their 52 year history making them the most successful local team in the Fermanagh and Western.
Managers
First Team Billy Reynolds
Reserve Team Gareth 'Jonto' Johnston

JOHSTON Andrew (Jonto). 4th July -in memoriam.

Hello Debs!

I must say I admire your tenacity - and your seemingly unlimited energy!

Just like to say 'thank you' for all your hard work.

Carol

[Debra A]

Since I only learned about the alleged visit by Kelly's father relatively recently, the piece you have cited couldn't have been one of those I used when writing my book in the mid-Nineties. There must be other sources out there somewhere.

There are other versions in different newspapers. In some it is an interview given by Barnett, in others it is a 'full statement' given by Barnett-the statement mention might mean it was something revealed at the inquest?