ORIGINAL doors in Miller's court

[richardh]

Geez! Really?

Try 9 feet. Really.

[DJA]

Try 9 feet. Really.

[richardh]

Question:
Is 8'6" a bit too high for the ceilings? because at the moment that's what I have used for my current model. It seems really high!

[DJA]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panelling

One person's wainscoting is another's wooden partitions.

It would be interesting to find any Census records for 1851/61/71.

[Joshua Rogan]

For a luxury townhouse,that is a very inefficient waste of space.

Since all mentions of internal walls seem to say they were just wooden partitions (one mention in the Marshall trial of wainscotting), does this indicate that the entire original building was gutted when it was divided into flats by Miller?

[Joshua Rogan]

Hi Joshua.
If I recall....both Mrs Roberts & Kate Marshall fell at the top of the stairs.
Didn't Mrs Roberts fall against her husband, while it was Kate Marshall who fell on the landing?

Yes, Mrs Roberts pushed past them as they struggled (Marshall on the floor) against Amory's partition, getting blood on his shirt. Then she collapsed at the top of the stairs at Amory's door. At least, that's how I read it.

Roberts: "she came out and fell against me in the passage—she squeezed through us—I let her go by to get assistance, and when she got to the top of the staircase she fell"

Amory: "I saw the deceased coming out of her own door when I opened my door—I could see her door from where I was standing—Roberts and the prisoner were struggling on the right-hand side of my door, in the corner—the prisoner was sitting down on the floor, and Roberts held her two wrists—Mrs. Roberts fell at my door."

To me, this shows that Amory's door was on the landing at the top of the stairs, and so would have been passed by anyone going to or from room 19.

[DJA]

Dave.

This 3D model was the last version from Richard that I know of.
Richard, myself, and a number of other members provided input. I think it is pretty close to reality.

Reckon that is a marvelous interpretation and may well be very close.

We know from photos that 13 was completely outside of the passage.
Wonder if the passage gap/door is another door to the stairs part way across the building.

For a luxury townhouse,that is a very inefficient waste of space.
Probably born out by the chimneys,which are likely to be one a room or possibly two if there is a double room.


Reckon there was a side hallway,as you know.
Suspect the back stairs ran partway across the building,not along it.

Keep up the Good Work!

[Wickerman]

Hi Joshua.
If I recall....both Mrs Roberts & Kate Marshall fell at the top of the stairs.
Didn't Mrs Roberts fall against her husband, while it was Kate Marshall who fell on the landing?

[Joshua Rogan]

Hi Jerry.

In the 3D model above, we included the details from the Kate Marshall case.

Hi Jon.
Didn't the case show that Mrs Roberts ran out of no.19, past her husband and sister as they struggled on the landing, collapsing at or just past Amory's (and Mrs Prater's) door and also at the top of the "down" stairs? If so, doesn't the model have the stairs going the wrong way?

[Wickerman]

Wick,

During the Kate Marshall murder case the floor above ground level is referred to as the first floor at #26 Dorset Street and indicated by the fact Davis Roberts said he went to the landing. No?

Hi Jerry.

In the 3D model above, we included the details from the Kate Marshall case.
However, if you are commenting on the Ground/First floor issue, I'm not sure the point you are making.
Roberts occupied the room above Kelly's, her's being on the ground floor, him being up on the First floor.

[Wickerman]

Dave.

This 3D model was the last version from Richard that I know of.
Richard, myself, and a number of other members provided input. I think it is pretty close to reality.

Reckon there are a number of "typos".
First move 13 up on the map so it's entrance door is no longer under the passage.
Move the GF hole in the wall to the left,so that it is in alignment with 13's "partition door" and the Dorset Street door. (The one foot on that gap confuses a bit).
I have no problem with "Prater's door" being halfway along the passage,but don't tell Wicky D'oh!

Reckon all rooms were identical 10' x 12'. Might have been a main staircase from the door halfway up the passage ie what now appears to be "Prater's door".

Phew. Easier working out who JtR was.

[DJA]

Reckon there are a number of "typos".
First move 13 up on the map so it's entrance door is no longer under the passage.
Move the GF hole in the wall to the left,so that it is in alignment with 13's "partition door" and the Dorset Street door. (The one foot on that gap confuses a bit).
I have no problem with "Prater's door" being halfway along the passage,but don't tell Wicky D'oh!

Reckon all rooms were identical 10' x 12'. Might have been a main staircase from the door halfway up the passage ie what now appears to be "Prater's door".

Phew. Easier working out who JtR was.

[Robert St Devil]

In any photo of No 26 off Dorset Street, two windows are obvious in the 2nd floor (1st storey). Do these windows belong to the same room? In other words, does the 1st storey front room run the entire width of the building (similar to No. 13)?

If so, could this be an indication that the second room on the 1st storey (the middle room) ran lengthwise between the front and back rooms; and, was located along the chimney side of the house?

I'm having to rethink the staircase placement, dja.

[Robert St Devil]

It says it in Simon's post (1st line):

Figures on buildings - 1, 1 1/2, 2, 2 1/2, etc - are stories in height counting from level of ground.

I read it to say that here was an opening in the brick work on the ground level (1st).

[jerryd]

Wick,

During the Kate Marshall murder case the floor above ground level is referred to as the first floor at #26 Dorset Street and indicated by the fact Davis Roberts said he went to the landing. No?

DAVID ROBERTS . I am by trade a painter and decorator, of 26, Dorset Street, Spitalfields—on November 26th I was living there, in the first-floor back room, with my wife, the deceased woman, and her sister, the prisoner—they carried on the same business of whip-making—we had all been living together in the same room for some time—on Saturday morning, November 26th, I left home about half-past seven a.m., leaving my wife and the prisoner in the room with my little boy, three years old—I returned about half-past six or a quarter to seven in the evening—only my wife and the child were then at home—my wife was sober at that time—she went out at about a quarter past seven, leaving me and the child in the room—she came back about twelve with the prisoner—they brought with them a quart can full of beer—my wife gave me a glass of it, and I drank it while I was in bed—then the two started quarrelling about the profits of the work—they kept on quarrelling, and the prisoner rushed on my wife—I got out of bed—they fell against the table, over-turned it, and both fell on the bed, and then on the floor—I parted them, they left one another, and I went to my bed again—the child was a bit fidgety and crying, and I cuddled it in my arms—the women kept on arguing the point—the prisoner then got hold of part of a broken jug, and dashed it against the window—I got out of bed, and she deliberately
See original
rushed at my wife and said, "You thing, I will give you something for this," at the same time rushing at her and striking her a blow in the right breast—I did not see anything in her hand at the time, afterwards I did—she was facing her at the time—my wife turned round and said to me, "Dave, she has stabbed me"—I laid the child down in the bed, and rushed to the prisoner, and claimed her by her two wrists, and struggled with her till I got her out of the door on to the landing, where I kicked the partition and called for help—(referring to the plan) this shows the position

Then this:

I kicked against this partition, which separates the witness Amory's room from the staircase; the partition ends at a small room called the storeroom—Amory came out of his room—during the struggle with the prisoner my wife came out of her room and fell against me, I was standing up, struggling with the prisoner; I had still got her by the wrists—I then let go of her left hand and secured the knife from her right hand, and handed it to Amory—we were then on the ground to-gether—we fell against Amory's door, we could not get any further, and we both fell on the ground there—I took the knife out of her right hand—I could not say whether there was anything on it, I was so confused—I felt it, it was a bit sticky like—a woman came out of Amory's room, his wife, or the woman he lives with, Mary Johnson, and another woman, I don't know her name—I saw the policeman arrive—I said to him, "Take this woman in charge, she has stabbed my wife"—the prisoner said, "Good God, let me see her;" or "let me kiss her"—the policeman said, "Hold her tight while I go and alarm another constable"——he went down the stairs and blew his whistle, and another constable was on the spot—I was not dressed, I was in my shirt, just as I jumped out of bed—