ORIGINAL doors in Miller's court

[richardh]

Didn't No. 26 have attic rooms?

Good question Richard! The key isn't very much help;

http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/firemaps/england/northwest/largeimage154923.html

I've always assumed that the 1/2 floor meant an attic room built into the arch of the roof.

[Joshua Rogan]

Question:
On Goad's Plan No. 29,28 & 27 (MaCathy's) is described as being 3.5 floors. What is half a floor please?

ta

Good question Richard! The key isn't very much help;

http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/firemaps/england/northwest/largeimage154923.html

I've always assumed that the 1/2 floor meant an attic room built into the arch of the roof.

[richardh]

Question:
On Goad's Plan No. 29,28 & 27 (MaCathy's) is described as being 3.5 floors. What is half a floor please?

ta

[richardh]

That would be handy and it would put a lot of theories and [my] guesswork to bed!

I've always wondered if the original architect's plan for the building survives in a dusty cupboard somewhere. Has anyone checked at the London Metropolitan Archive to see if they hold anything there?

[Bridewell]

I've always wondered if the original architect's plan for the building survives in a dusty cupboard somewhere. Has anyone checked at the London Metropolitan Archive to see if they hold anything there?

[Robert St Devil]

Looking forward to your work, Richard. Sorry that we can't get any closer to the actual design, too many variations in the illustrations and not enough background in the frame in the photos. Still worth the endeavor!

I don't know about the door being where the window is. I can't tell if the yard slopes underneath the window, or if it is just an optical illusion in the photo. If it slopes, it would seems a bad place for a door.

I'm rethinking whether or not Mary's door was part of the original design. Going over the photo with a mikerscope to see if i can see cutwork in the bricks around the door (if, in fact, it was added later). One thing I noticed in all of illustrations is the depiction of a "fanwork" (or arch) of bricks over No. 13's door. I can almost see them in the photo. Now I can't say that this arch of bricks wasnt added along with the door if it was installed at a later date, but that seems like an elaboration on the work needed just to add a door. Also, I'm trying to determine if her doorstep could have been created by cutting out a doorframe in the brick. To me, currently, it looks like the bricks are built around the doorstep, making me condider that the No 13 door may have been part of the original design.

[richardh]

Thanks for all the replies
I am going to write the 3D models slate clean and we will begin again with the latest VR model I will release probably this weekend (Feb 17th '18).

I will post a YouTube video to go with it and then we can begin to establish and change things using that single model instead of a multitude of versions I have put out in the past.

Too many versions of 3D models and too many forum threads have clouded my already boggled and confused mind!

[DJA]

Quite possibly built for and owned by different family members.

John Miller was a butcher at 30 Dorset Street who purchased in 1845 and built Miller's Court between then and 1851.

[Robert St Devil]

Hi Dave

That's what I've spent the last few days trying to determine, which address did the court originally belong to - No 26 or No 27 or neither or both?

If it belonged to No 27, then I don't see any reason why No 26 had access to the courtyard. I agree tho, everything I've read says Mary's room was a parlour at a prior time.

Unable to determine bc I can only see a couple of decades prior, and the two properties are always listed together. In 71, the properties are advertised for sale as two freehold shops along with 6 houses [Miller's Court].

Hello Richard.

7 rooms is nothing. I saw an ad listing 40 Berners with 11 rooms and a basement

[Wickerman]

So we are back to the theory that the stairs (ORIGINAL) went across the width of the house?

Hi Richard.
No, that is not what I tried to describe.

The last 3D model I saw from you was the one you created following our long exchange a couple of years ago. You may have updated it since, so I'm not sure if the 3D model I saved is the final version.

We debated how the floor plan may have looked in 1888, what I was suggesting above was how the floor plan may have originally been, and the stairs have not changed.

In the 3D model the stairs begin aligned with the passage wall, then turn to the right, this is still the best interpretation.
However, under the staircase, where the partition wall abuts to the passage wall, you have a solid partition (beside the sealed up door).

This is where I think there was an arch, or another door (in red), which led to the backyard.
The dashed line is where there was a partition wall, since removed to make room 13 larger.

[DJA]

The door to Kelly's room was just nailed shut.
The partitioning may have been original.
Edit. The door is behind her head,in line with the front door in Dorset Street.
It is 3 feet wide and 2 feet from the wall.

[DJA]

Lived the rear of two,Oakleigh and Moorabbin.
Both had return staircases.
Plenty of return staircases have doorways under them. U turn ones allow doorways next to them.

[GUT]

I was in Hobart recently, some buildings built early-mid 1800s a few were not unlike Miller’s Court.

Shop, lane, shop.

Behind them accommodation accessed via the lane, my first thought, “Miller’s Court” later rearrange$ to make McCarthy’s shop and rooms to rent, plus the shed.

[DJA]

Try visualizing a town house with a back garden and a rear parlor.
The rear parlor had entry through the house and a rear door to access the garden. It was self contained as far as heating and tea making.The chimney suggests original equipment.
The staircase door is an alternative to using the front door.

Millers Court was built much later and the rear parlor partitioned off.

There was a drawing on the internet of an original tall security gate at the back of the passage.
Firefox no longer accesses it,however another browser might.

Keep up the Good Work!

Edit. The original doorway was probably mentioned in some descriptions of the partition.

So we are back to the theory that the stairs (ORIGINAL) went across the width of the house? If this is the case, and with the ORIGINAL door to 13 being a few feet from the passage wall, then the stairs would be going up and turning to the right onto the landing above?

I have in mind also the discussion we've had in the past regarding the goings on during the lizzie Robets murder in room 19 a few years later. That [suggested] layout needs to be considered in relation to this discussion too.

I have to say that I find this whole subject a HUGH headache and very frustrating as I continue to build my VR Miller's Court. I am trying to arrive at a plan using logic and common sense but I fear any design will fall short of being an accurate version!

[richardh]

Indeed, GUT
I'm amazed they managed to squeeze 7 rooms into No 26.

Richard I doubt we will ever no for certain and no matter where you place them there will be some who insist it’s wrong.

I will say this, what’s the likelihood they went to a fair bit of expense and moved them when digging the place up for cheap rooms