"Murder...!" cry

[Wickerman]

"Barely able to talk" is another of Michael's misleading arguments.
Cox made no such claim, what Cox did say was "I did not notice she was drunk until she said 'goodnight' ".
Considering Cox walked behind Kelly obviously she was not staggering, or bouncing off the walls as she came up the passage.

Also, I'm not sure how you can sing if you are barely able to talk.
Maybe Michael knows.

[Observer]

Im going to say this flippantly, or at least semi-flippantly; but if I expected anyone to be able to sing for an hour in such circumstances it would be an alcoholic Irish prostitute.

haha nice one Jason. Perhaps the witnesses who heard the song recognised it by the tune, sort of, and not the words

[jason_c]

Barely able to talk, and then sang off and on for over an hour? Really?

Im going to say this flippantly, or at least semi-flippantly; but if I expected anyone to be able to sing for an hour in such circumstances it would be an alcoholic Irish prostitute.

[Abby Normal]

Barely able to talk, and then sang off and on for over an hour? Really?

your not serious with this are you?

[Observer]

I cant believe that this isn't an obvious conclusion....she came in barely able to speak at 11:45, she sang off and on for over an hour

Barely able to talk, and then sang off and on for over an hour? Really?

[Observer]

Again, for those who haven't absorbed what they might have read a few thousand times....there are NO sounds of scuffle, no sounds of footsteps, and no sounds at all after the cry out.

And no sounds of anyone knocking on Kelly's door.

[Observer]

"As if from my door" from the Witness in the court, and "as if from the courtyard" by then witness upstairs. If she opened her door to see who was knocking...the knock that woke diddles?...then you have your answer.

Anyone else claim to have made that call? Anyone else who could not have claimed the call?

None of the witnesses heard a knock at the door. Where did you get that from?

[Wickerman]

I cant believe that this isn't an obvious conclusion....

It isn't obvious for two reasons.
First, Kelly had no money so she had no means of making a fire or wasting anything of value to make a fire.
Second, the poor slept in their clothes, Prater even mentions this, but so do other witnesses.
Also, sleeping in your clothes saves wasting kindling/paper, or whatever, to make a fire.

Kelly was undressed, consistent with her entertaining, hence the fire - more for the client than for her.

.....she came in barely able to speak at 11:45, she sang off and on for over an hour, and by 1:30 her room was dark and quiet.

You easily dismiss other witnesses, but put all your faith in Cox.
Why?
Cox's story conflicted with Prater, one of them had to be wrong. Plus, no-one in any pub close by remembered seeing Kelly with a "blotchy" character.
Cox's story remains uncorroborated, except that another witness heard her singing. But, that does not mean she was drunk, and it doesn't mean she was with a man (blotchy), also, it does not mean she didn't go out again.
All that is your own belief clouding the issue for you.

[Michael W Richards]

Again, for those who haven't absorbed what they might have read a few thousand times....there are NO sounds of scuffle, no sounds of footsteps, and no sounds at all after the cry out. So, ...no, there was no scuffle accompanying the call out, or immediately following it.

If the camels would take their heads out of the sand they may see or read something that can help with these sorts of issues.

[Michael W Richards]

Who said it came from her room???

"As if from my door" from the Witness in the court, and "as if from the courtyard" by then witness upstairs. If she opened her door to see who was knocking...the knock that woke diddles?...then you have your answer.

Anyone else claim to have made that call? Anyone else who could not have claimed the call?

[Michael W Richards]

Who said she was sleeping?

I cant believe that this isn't an obvious conclusion....she came in barely able to speak at 11:45, she sang off and on for over an hour, and by 1:30 her room was dark and quiet. Not one witness said they saw her leave her room. Yes, we have witnesses that said they saw her after that, none of which we have any proof knew Mary Kelly at all. And at least one who was warned at the Inquest that her evidence is contrary to other evidence.

[Wickerman]

Dew also said Hutchinson had the day mixed-up.

True, but this is probably Dew's faulty memory again. Hutchinson had corroboration in the testimony of Sarah Lewis. So Hutch was definitely there that morning, and both Hutch and Lewis saw a 'couple' go up the court.

The police eventually disregarded Maxwell,starting at the inquest or before,
where she was warned.Why no corroboration from anyone in Britannia? As it stood Maxwell was uncorroborated.

Maxwell was corroborated, in part, by Maurice Lewis. at least to the extent that Kelly was alive after 8:00 am that Friday morning.
If you recall, inquiries were made at all the beer shops and pubs in the area to see if anyone remembered Kelly with that blotchy character, and the pot of beer.
That investigation turned up nothing either. Does that mean the Cox's evidence is also defective, that there was no "blotchy"?
The rules we use to dismiss some arguments can also work against us.

Weighing everything in, 3-4 AM murder was much more believable/real.

That much I agree with.
As firm as I am in my belief that the police much preferred to accept Dr. Bond's estimated time of death, in part supported by Cox's testimony, I also believe Dr. Bond was wrong.
Kelly was alive until 3:00 am, but not much later.

[Varqm]

But how do you get the date wrong, when it was the same day?
The murder happened Friday morning, Maxwell was questioned Friday afternoon.

Wrong Day?

Dew also said Hutchinson had the day mixed-up.Police way of saying "news seekers"?The police eventually disregarded Maxwell,starting at the inquest or before,
where she was warned.Why no corroboration from anyone in Britannia? As it stood Maxwell was uncorroborated.The police were more experienced at and aware of publicity seekers,there were lots of false reports/gossip at that time,to make that judgment.
Also if "Oh Murder" was common or not and it's relevance.Weighing everything in, 3-4 AM murder was much more believable/real.

[DJA]

No argument there.
Familiar with witnesses who have allowed themselves to be led.
Nonetheless,the cry fits the time frame very well.

[c.d.]

That's what I would expect. So now we have a situation where they heard something that might have sounded like murder and immediately connected it with the murder thus influencing what they thought they heard.

c.d.