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For what reason do we include Stride?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
    Question to Frederick Blackwell - [Coroner] Was there any blood on the soles of the deceased's boots? - No.
    So it looks likely she didn't stand in any blood whilst staggering into the yard. Not impossible but if the artery was partially severed would it be unreasonable to suppose that blood would have flowed out from her neck in front of her and she might have stood in some?
    Look at the amount of blood that had drained from her neck into the gutter, a substantial amount. If she had been cut out on the street and staggered into the yard, considering the severity of the cut, there would have been substantial amounts of blood, both on the street, and her clothing. There was none. I'll go with the Doctors observations.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
      Not only was there no blood on the street but there were no cachous either, yet some were strewn in the yard as well as being in Liz's hand. So BSM decides to slit Liz's throat in the middle of the street while there are two witnesses nearby? Sorry but not for my money.
      Fanny Mortimer - I was standing at the door of my house nearly the whole time between half-past twelve and one o'clock this (Sunday) morning, and did not notice anything unusual. - A man touched her face, and said it was quite warm, so that the deed must have been done while I was standing at the door of my house. There was certainly no noise made, and I did not observe any one enter the gates. - A young man and his sweetheart were standing at the corner of the street, about twenty yards away, before and after the time the woman must have been murdered, but they told me they did not hear a sound.
      Hi DK
      To me he could have cut her throat after the two skidadled.
      no blood on the street-the streets were wet-could have gotten diluted, blood on her hand-she may have put her hand over the wound.
      Fanny Mortimer adds little -she saw neither stride nor BS man. I doubt she was at her door the length of time she said.
      cashoo are a red herring-youve been reading too much sherlock holmes ; )
      she simply held on to them through the attack. Its well known that people are found clutching things in there hand/s after violent deaths-car accidents, murders etc.
      Last edited by Abby Normal; 09-18-2018, 01:03 PM.
      "Is all that we see or seem
      but a dream within a dream?"

      -Edgar Allan Poe


      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

      -Frederick G. Abberline

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      • #78
        Why did she have blood on her hand?

        The only wound that would she had that would produce blood was the neck wound.


        So obviously when her throat was cut she put her hand on the wound (an instintive reaction BTW) which probably explains the lack of blood found on her clothes, shoes, street etc.
        "Is all that we see or seem
        but a dream within a dream?"

        -Edgar Allan Poe


        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

        -Frederick G. Abberline

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Observer View Post
          Look at the amount of blood that had drained from her neck into the gutter, a substantial amount. If she had been cut out on the street and staggered into the yard, considering the severity of the cut, there would have been substantial amounts of blood, both on the street, and her clothing. There was none. I'll go with the Doctors observations.
          Agreed
          [Coroner] Have you formed any opinion as to the manner in which the deceased's right hand became stained with blood? - It is a mystery. There were small oblong clots on the back of the hand. I may say that I am taking it as a fact that after death the hand always remained in the position in which I found it - across the body.
          If Liz had grasped her throat surely the palm of the hand would have been covered in blood.

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          • #80
            " So BSM decides to slit Liz's throat in the middle of the street while there are two witnesses nearby? Sorry but not for my money. "

            Hello Darryl,

            That never made sense to me either. Schwartz said Stride was alive when he left the scene. If the BS man leaves shortly thereafter all he is guilty of is pushing a woman to the ground. Why kill her?

            c.d.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
              I get that impression as well, Abby. There's a possibility that she wouldn't have died (or even lost consciousness) instantly, owing to the nature of the wound, which may have given her a time to make her way into the yard herself.
              But didn't the coroner say that the body looked liked it had been gently laid down. In the above scenario I would expect her to have fallen in a heap.

              c.d.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                But didn't the coroner say that the body looked liked it had been gently laid down. In the above scenario I would expect her to have fallen in a heap.
                I can imagine her inching her way along the ground, too weak to stand up.
                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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                • #83
                  You say that "nobody saw or heard her putting up a fight" but isn't that what Schwartz claims to have done? I think his rather strange claim that she called out but not very loudly might be explained by the fact that Stride was being strangled/choked and was thus unable to make more noise than she did. I think Schwartz witnessed the first part of the murder (perhaps not a popular view these days).
                  Does anybody know the truth in the following please ?
                  When I watched "The Definitive" on youtube. It showed the reported finding Schwartz and talking through another chap at his door. The man talking on Schwartz's behalf said said that "it seems Schwartz saw the whole thing". Has this been verified or was it just the reporter saying this?
                  Pat......

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                    I can imagine her inching her way along the ground, too weak to stand up.
                    But wouldn't that have left a trail of blood and telltale signs on her clothing?

                    c.d.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                      But wouldn't that have left a trail of blood and telltale signs on her clothing?
                      I thought of that almost immediately I wrote my previous post, CD. We must be on the same wavelength.
                      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                      "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                        I thought of that almost immediately I wrote my previous post, CD. We must be on the same wavelength.
                        It also would have wreaked havoc on the cachous.

                        c.d.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
                          Agreed
                          [Coroner] Have you formed any opinion as to the manner in which the deceased's right hand became stained with blood? - It is a mystery. There were small oblong clots on the back of the hand. I may say that I am taking it as a fact that after death the hand always remained in the position in which I found it - across the body.
                          If Liz had grasped her throat surely the palm of the hand would have been covered in blood.
                          Indeed. Even if she had grasped her throat, in my opinion, there's no way in the world she could have stemmed the flow to the extent that it didn't stain her clothes or, spill onto the street

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                            I can imagine her inching her way along the ground, too weak to stand up.
                            Thereby leaving a trail of blood, and staining her clothing, which was not in evidence

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                            • #89
                              He cuts her throat in the street, flees, her hand goes to her throat and she staggers into the yard. Where she expires.
                              "Is all that we see or seem
                              but a dream within a dream?"

                              -Edgar Allan Poe


                              "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                              quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                              -Frederick G. Abberline

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                                He cuts her throat in the street, flees, her hand goes to her throat and she staggers into the yard. Where she expires.
                                Why would he kill her after being seen by two witnesses? I would also expect that she would fall in a heap not look like she had been gently laid down.

                                c.d.

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