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  • Originally posted by Harry D View Post
    Loyalty to his fellow jews/immigrants?
    There was no point.The IWEC members present were already interviewed/examined and cleared as told by Reid.15 min fame,money.

    ----
    Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced, otherwise people run back to the hills,no towns).
    M. Pacana

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    • Originally posted by Varqm View Post
      There was no point.The IWEC members present were already interviewed/examined and cleared as told by Reid.15 min fame,money.

      ----
      That's right. They were all examined and questioned. No blood on them. No knife. Door to door inquiries were carried out even in adjoining streets about the area. Some of those members were even seen going into the club and others had to take the side door and saw nothing.

      Stride was quickly blitzed. The neckerchief she was wearing had been tightened as if pulled upon.

      Schwartz described a blitz attack. That's not a bad guess from someone supposedly making up stories.
      Bona fide canonical and then some.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
        Hi Sam
        I think your missing the big picture.
        Quite the opposite, Abby. I believe that I'm looking at the big picture. A picture which includes, among other things, the fact that - with the sole exception of Stride - all the other murders usually attributed to the Ripper happened north of an axis delineated by Whitechapel Road.
        As violent as WC was, murder was still rare.
        Not, apparently, in the years encompassing all the Whitechapel Murders.
        and we have a suspect peaked cap man, seen by several witnesses with Stride and eddowes and also en route between Dutfield yard and Mitre Square with the anon Church st sighting, I think its fairly reasonable that the ripper was wearing a peaked cap that night and murdered both Stride and Eddowes.
        Peaked caps were a common type of headgear among the working classes, so I don't read too much significance into that - at least, not so much that I'd hang my hat on it. Pardon pun.
        Kind regards, Sam Flynn

        "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

        Comment


        • Maybe it is just me but I can't understand why more people just don't think what the police thought in 1888 and that is Jack was interrupted killing Liz. It needn't have been Diemschultz who he heard arriving, any noise from the club might have made him think he was in danger. Liz was murdered in Whitechapel, a prostitute probably looking for clients that night. Killed in the early hours of the morning swiftly and silently [No I don't believe BS was Jack], in a darkened corner by a knife being drawn across her throat. Yes, there are subtle differences but show me a serial killer who murders each victim exactly verbatim. As for Kate if you take into account he might have had a bolt hole near Mitre-square, taking into account the finding of the rag and all that, which he may have used for a few minutes to clean himself up a little and calm himself down after Liz, and then again after Kate [said bolthole]. Also is it just possible that he killed Liz a little too close to home [maybe Jack was a member of the IWEC]? Maybe he realized this and he wanted to draw the police away by hoping to find another victim further away but at the same time near somewhere, he felt comfortable [again bolthole]. Also heading northwards and dropping the apron in Goulston st he may have tried putting the police off his scent a little bit more than he had [conjecture I know] if he did have connections to Berner St.

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          • Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
            Maybe it is just me but I can't understand why more people just don't think what the police thought in 1888 and that is Jack was interrupted killing Liz. It needn't have been Diemschultz who he heard arriving, any noise from the club might have made him think he was in danger. Liz was murdered in Whitechapel, a prostitute probably looking for clients that night. Killed in the early hours of the morning swiftly and silently [No I don't believe BS was Jack], in a darkened corner by a knife being drawn across her throat. Yes, there are subtle differences but show me a serial killer who murders each victim exactly verbatim. As for Kate if you take into account he might have had a bolt hole near Mitre-square, taking into account the finding of the rag and all that, which he may have used for a few minutes to clean himself up a little and calm himself down after Liz, and then again after Kate [said bolthole]. Also is it just possible that he killed Liz a little too close to home [maybe Jack was a member of the IWEC]? Maybe he realized this and he wanted to draw the police away by hoping to find another victim further away but at the same time near somewhere, he felt comfortable [again bolthole]. Also heading northwards and dropping the apron in Goulston st he may have tried putting the police off his scent a little bit more than he had [conjecture I know] if he did have connections to Berner St.
            So many aspects of the Stride murder which make it different from all the others, and suggest she was killed by a different hand.

            www.trevormarriott.co.uk

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Batman View Post
              Schwartz claimed to be there at the time Stride was murdered (and was obviously there and murdered). Are you suggesting he was or wasn't there?

              Also, how do you explain that Swanson basically said Pipeman wasn't considered a suspect?
              Sorry Batman but Schwartz said nothing about seeing Stride murdered. He only saw a woman pushed to the ground. She was alive when he left the scene.

              c.d.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Harry D View Post
                Schwartz was full of BS, man.
                I don't think he was full of BS but he did come into the middle of a movie that had no subtitles and left before it was over. I don' think he was lying but I do think we should take his story with a grain of salt given the circumstances.

                c.d.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                  Sorry Batman but Schwartz said nothing about seeing Stride murdered. He only saw a woman pushed to the ground. She was alive when he left the scene.

                  c.d.
                  Technically you are right, but it seems to me that the alternative is to suggest Stride went through a double attack in the space of a few minutes by two unrelated fellows.

                  Then you have Eddowes.

                  Three attackers in total if someone thinks they are all different people.

                  Do you know how many coincidences are being played out to make Stride not a JtR victim and Schwartz telling porky pies?
                  1. Coincidence that walking distance towards the city from the time and area of Strides death puts one in a visible window of opportunity to see Eddowes come out of the drunk tank around Duke Street.
                  2. A coincidence that Lewende and Schwartz describe very similar looking men with the murdered women.
                  3. A coincidence that Schwartz was walking along the same road near the time Stride was murdered and told a lie about what he saw.
                  4. A coincidence that Stride was attacked by two people in the space of a few minutes.
                  5. The coincidental victimology.
                  6. That other serial killers have also quickly found another victim when the first one didn't satisfy their signature. Such as an escaping victim. The coincidence that Strides and Eddowes murder happens to look like someone was interrupted this way.


                  Things like this tell me that compounding coincidences makes their probability even more unlikely.
                  Bona fide canonical and then some.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                    I don't think he was full of BS but he did come into the middle of a movie that had no subtitles and left before it was over. I don' think he was lying but I do think we should take his story with a grain of salt given the circumstances.

                    c.d.
                    But what is your basis that he was not lying or reliable.

                    ---
                    Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced, otherwise people run back to the hills,no towns).
                    M. Pacana

                    Comment


                    • >>But what is your basis that he was not lying or reliable.<<


                      Presumably this,


                      "In the matter of the Hungarian who said he saw a struggle between a man and a woman in the passage where the Stride body was afterwards found, the Leman-street police have reason to doubt the truth of the story."
                      dustymiller
                      aka drstrange


                      "Whenever an expert says something that bolsters the Lechmere theory, it is not my task to disprove him ..."
                      Fisherman

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
                        So many aspects of the Stride murder which make it different from all the others, and suggest she was killed by a different hand.

                        www.trevormarriott.co.uk
                        Hi Trevor, if you don't believe BS was Liz's killer, then can I ask what aspects you think are different?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
                          Hi Trevor, if you don't believe BS was Liz's killer, then can I ask what aspects you think are different?
                          Time of death
                          Location
                          Weapon used
                          No body mutilations
                          South of the Whitechapel Road

                          www.trevormarriott.co.uk

                          Comment


                          • Hi.
                            According to Schwartz . the man tried to pull her into the street.
                            This implies to me , he wanted Stride to come with him to another area, when she refused , he flung her to the ground.
                            She could identify him , so he slit her throat
                            Which implies to me he showed the same M/O as Jack.if the others had refused his advances, as Mary Nichols may have done, they may have suffered a slit throat only ,but Nichols was in a deserted street , and mutilation occurred.
                            Regards Richard.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by richardnunweek View Post
                              Hi.
                              According to Schwartz . the man tried to pull her into the street.
                              This implies to me , he wanted Stride to come with him to another area, when she refused , he flung her to the ground.
                              She could identify him , so he slit her throat
                              Which implies to me he showed the same M/O as Jack.if the others had refused his advances, as Mary Nichols may have done, they may have suffered a slit throat only ,but Nichols was in a deserted street , and mutilation occurred.
                              Regards Richard.
                              But if any of the victims were soliciting, which would have entailed them propositioning any men who passed by, and that propositioning was aggressive to the point of those propositioned were physically stopped from going on their way, would it not be a natural reaction to push the woman away. one hard push could have resulted in a woman falling over.

                              You see sometime there is always a less sinister explanation to recorded events in the world of ripperology but many seem to not want to accept.

                              www.trevormarriott.co.uk

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
                                Hi Trevor, if you don't believe BS was Liz's killer, then can I ask what aspects you think are different?
                                I am sorry my reply was as result of my misreading your post. The reply was to show why Stride was not killed by the same hand as any of the others.

                                My reply to your original question has been answered in another post that followed

                                www.trevormarriott.co.uk

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