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For what reason do we include Stride?

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  • Originally posted by JeffHamm View Post
    Hi all,

    While reading Evan's and Skinner last night (The Ultimate Jack The Ripper Companion), I came across an interesting news report (found on page 382, at the end of Chapter 22). Much of it is describing an attack on Annie Farmer, which I'll not transcribe here, but at the close of the article was this tantalizing gem. This was reported in the East Anglian Daily Times, on Monday, Nov 26th, 1888.

    "...
    Two of the men who described at the time the man believed to have committed the Berners [sic] Street and other murders, to-day reported that they have again seen him, but that though they followed him he disappeared suddenly down an unfrequented turning."

    Now, combined with the older thread suggesting Pipe Man was possibly identified and interviewed (also in the Elizabeth Stride section like this thread), the only two men this could be would be Pipe Man and Schwartz. The problem, however, is that Pipe Man and Schwartz didn't know each other (otherwise why would Schwartz have run, etc), so the idea of them being together and spotting BS together seems unlikely.

    Either this is a complete press fabrication or the two men referred to are Lawende and Levy, and it's not the Berner Street murder but the Mitre Square murder of Eddowes from the same night that they were connected to. While that makes the most sense to me, the article does actually say Berner Street, and I'm loath to just discard anything out of hand (as there are others who reported possible sightings of Stride that night, I just can't think of two who clearly must have spotted the same person, as pipe man and Scwartz would have), nor do any of the other sightings involve two people likely to be together and so produce the above story. It is much easier, and not a huge stretch, to suggest the wrong murder is being referenced in this story, but I was wondering if anyone has looked into this report (they don't say anything about it in Evan's and Skinner).

    - Jeff
    A speculation: Maybe Scwartz approached the police a second time with his translator in tow so to the press on hand thought it a two man observation. -- personally I think the above mentioned Packer logic makes more sense - if I am not mistaken Packer made such a claim once before.

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    • I was going to suggest the Packer incident too. But could it be referring to Best and Gardner, who saw Stride with a man in the pub?

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      • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
        If cachous were only a ha'penny a bag or thereabouts, which I suspect is a reasonable guess, that hardly marks them out as luxury goods.

        Incidentally, most of us have encountered Stride's "cachous" with the oft-quoted description that they were used to "sweeten the breath", but they were often - perhaps primarily? - medicinal in nature. At a mundane level, perhaps the only reason she had them was because she had a cold or a sore throat; it was a wet September, after all, and such infections must have been common in the lodging-houses.
        Sam, Cashous primary definition is "
        lozenge
        for
        sweetening
        the
        breath." Couple that with the flower arrangement...obtained after she left the lodging house, and the fact she requested a brush to remove lint from her boot length skirt, you have an example of preening. People preen before dates. People preen before work related occasions. Streetwalkers would not preen before soliciting smelly dockers or warehousemen after midnight.

        Michael Richards

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        • I don't have a problem with the idea that Stride had preened herself to go out on a date or similar - indeed, given that she was hanging around the area where she'd lived for at least two, if not three years just before 1888, I wouldn't be surprised if she was. I agree about what the primary definition of cachou is, but that doesn't mean that the ones Liz had weren't of the throat lozenge variety. Indeed it might be that, because it was a doctor who described the cachous, he was as likely to use the word in that sense as he was to refer to the confectionary kind. Which were often made of licorice, by the way, so perhaps served the dual purpose of (somewhat) sweetening the breath and soothing the throat.
          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

          "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

          Comment


          • Originally posted by APerno View Post

            A speculation: Maybe Scwartz approached the police a second time with his translator in tow so to the press on hand thought it a two man observation. -- personally I think the above mentioned Packer logic makes more sense - if I am not mistaken Packer made such a claim once before.
            Hi APerno,

            Interesting idea, but like you, with the Packer explanation offered earlier, I think that's the most likely too. It's too vague a story to do much else than find a reasonable guesstimate, and Packer and the shoe-black combined with Packer's known contact with the press, fits the bill.

            - Jeff

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            • Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
              I was going to suggest the Packer incident too. But could it be referring to Best and Gardner, who saw Stride with a man in the pub?
              Oh, I've forgotten that sighting I think. Will have to read up on it. Thanks for that.

              - Jeff

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
                I was going to suggest the Packer incident too. But could it be referring to Best and Gardner, who saw Stride with a man in the pub?
                Yes Joshua.

                Especially if we take the press report verbatim, "Two of the men who described at the time the man believed to have committed"..etc., may not refer to Packer & the shoe-black, as together they were not involved on the night of the murder, as far as we know (the shoe-black only appears in the second sighting).
                We need to look for two men who "at the time" of the murder gave a description of the suspect.
                So yes, Best & Gardner are very likely the two mentioned.

                If this is correct, then what I do find intriguing here is that whoever wrote that article seemed to think the police looked at the man with Stride at the Bricklayer's Arms as the same as the man seen by PC Smith, and by Packer.

                So thankyou for that Jeff, I'd overlooked that little gem.
                I thought it was only me who took those three suspects (seen by Packer, Smith, Best & Gardner) as the same man,
                Regards, Jon S.

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