The Cachous

[John G]

I do agree that the Marshall suspect resembles BS-man, superficially at least, but the woman seen by Marshall at 11:45 pm may not have been Stride. Marshall doesn't say that he didn't see a flower, he says, "she did not have a flower on her breast".

Stride was already wearing the flower, a dahlia, at 11:00 pm, when at the Bricklayer's Arms.

Hello Jon,

Yes, but I think Marshall's response needs to be put into context. At the inquest Marshall noted that he'd seen Stride's body in the mortuary. The Coroner asked him how he knew she was then same woman. He replied: " I recognize her both by her face and dress. She did not then have a flower in her breast."

I think, therefore, he wasn't trying to imply that she may have been wearing a flower elsewhere on her person; he was merely drawing attention to a minor discrepancy between what he observed in the mortuary, i.e. in respect of the deceased's dress, and the way the woman he saw on the night of the murder was dressed.

[c.d.]

Hello Jon.

"Marshall doesn't say that he didn't see a flower, he says, "she did not have a flower on her breast"."

You deserve a kiss for that. Well . . .

Cheers.
LC

It seems that you are mighty free with those kisses, Lynn. And here I thought I was special.

c.d.

[Wickerman]

It does appear that Stride was attacked whilst exiting the Yard. ........ Her killer, perhaps caught off guard initially, quickly responds; he follows her out, catching her from behind before she reaches the gates.

Hi John.

Given the repose of the body, it has always appeared to me that Stride was standing facing the wall, at which point she was attacked from behind.

[John G]

Hi John

But when Schwartz gave his statement to the police on Sunday night how would he have known that all the people you mention above had just cleared the scene ?

Hello Jon,

Maybe he didn't. However, there remains the possibility that he discussed the case with Eagle, and that there could have been a conspiracy to ensure that Schwartz gave a time which appeared to alibi Eagle and Lave. However, I personally think this is unlikely.

[Jon Guy]

I just think it's a little convenient that the incident happened, according to Schwartz, at 12:45: apparently just after Mortimer went in doors, whilst the couple seen by Mortimer had apparently left, and just after PC Smith, Eagle and Lave were in the vicinity.

Hi John

But when Schwartz gave his statement to the police on Sunday night how would he have known that all the people you mention above had just cleared the scene ?

[John G]

Bear in mind, Annie Chapman had similar bruising on the front of her chest.

I think this may be a red herring in respect of Stride. Dr Phillips was adamant that they were not bruises, just pressure marks. Chapman was different. There were bruises upon the temple and in front of the chest, however, Dr Phillips stated these were of "longer standing, probably days." There were, however, more recent bruises on the face, especially about the chin and sides of the jaw.

[John G]

Hello John. Thanks.

OK. Whatever unsettled her came between the cachous coming out and her turning 180 and exiting. It also caused her NOT to insert one.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Yes, I think in this scenario she enters the Yard, in a relatively relaxed state, with her killer. However, something occurs to make her feel unsettled and tense. Perhaps it's something the man said has he loomed behind her. Or maybe he did something-such as reach for the knife-and Stride sensed something wasn't quite right. Of course, the Yard was very dark, perhaps creating an eerie feel, and that in itself must have been a little unsettling.

[curious4]

Not that knot

Hello Lynn

Not an expert on such - but I don't think she would have tied a slip knot. Once over and through and once over and through again (whatever that's called). Not just the first, because that would leave it open for a quick snatch from a thief. Neither would he have to hold the knot. Experimented with my daughter's silk scarf, which she has been less than careful with (we were given one each after my son and wife visited China and wasn't going to ruin mine!). However, tied the knot, pulled the loop and the knot tightened, wherever I pulled.

Actually I wasn't clear, should have said pull and twist.
Although pulling would probably be enough - maybe.

So, knotty problem but I can(k)not agree.

Best wishes
C4

[lynn cates]

unsettling

Hello John. Thanks.

OK. Whatever unsettled her came between the cachous coming out and her turning 180 and exiting. It also caused her NOT to insert one.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

kiss

Hello Jon.

"Marshall doesn't say that he didn't see a flower, he says, "she did not have a flower on her breast"."

You deserve a kiss for that. Well . . .

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

proper direction

Hello Gwyneth.

"Twists scarf tight, she passes out"

Just twisting her scarf would NOT have allowed a change in knot direction. Also, after he had let go, the scarf would NOT be tighter.

To move the knot to the left and to tighten would require:

1. a pull on one tail of a slip knot

and

2. a motion in the proper direction

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

body position

Hello Errata. Thanks.

"Frankly I think we need to work backward. Start from how she was found"

Precisely! This I have tried to do.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

against building

Hello Abby.Thanks for that. Sorry to cause so much work.

"She now has acquiesced to have sex so she takes the caschous out as they enter the yard."

OK. So far, so good.

"She positions herself with her back against the wall facing him."

OK. But she was found to the west of the opened back gate. Would you expect BEHIND the gate to have been better?"

"He suddenly goes for the throat as per his usual MO grasping her scarf, choking her with that as he lowers/forces her to the ground."

Here, I believe, is the fly in the ointment. Does he grab with the right or left hand? Recall, your scenario requires her to be facing him and looking south.

If left (rare), he is pulling to his right. If she turns with the pull, her left side should be flush against the building. He is awkwardly holding her with his left hand against the building--completely across his body.

But if with the right (majority), the pull should be right to left (to avoid pinning his hand between the building and her head. In this case, the knot would be tight and to HIS left--her right.

Make sense?

Cheers.
LC

[John G]

Hello John. Thanks.

"She takes out the cachous to help her relax after the incident witnessed by Schwartz, and also to freshen her breath prior to entering the club."

But would she not face west just before entering the club?

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

It does appear that Stride was attacked whilst exiting the Yard. I believe that if she entered with her killer, something must have unsettled her; she therefore changes her mind, turns around and heads for the exit. Her killer, perhaps caught off guard initially, quickly responds; he follows her out, catching her from behind before she reaches the gates.

[lynn cates]

seeking entrance

Hello CD.

"But the question is what are they going to do in the yard that they couldn't do in the street?"

I presume, enter the club. The front door was locked.

Cheers.
LC