Where is Liz Stride?

[lynn cates]

solo uno

Hello Phil. Answer: one. (Heard that as a wee lad.)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

location, location, location

Hello Richard.

"I would suggest Broad shouldered did exactly that, when Liz attempted to seek refuge heading towards the club door, he cut her throat and made his escape"

OK. But why is Liz dead in the yard, but not at the door?

Cheers.
LC

[Phil Carter]

On the other hand, if Schwartz had seen the Seven Dwarfs passing out of Dutfields Yard everybody would want to know their descriptions, how many had knives, which way they went, which ones ate the grapes.....

Hello Jon,

That reminds me..

On my way to St Ives
I met a man with seven wives
Each wife had seven sacks
Each sack had seven cats
Each cat had seven kits
How many were going to St Ives?

I could easily make up one for Jack the Ripper etc..lol


Phil

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

couldn't resist

[QUOTE=Abby Normal;259521]Ive said this before but I will repeat: Why would the club members come up with such a convoluted ...
Uh, anarchy? Strange motivation for anarchists, but...

[richardnunweek]

Sorry this time I am guilty of double posting.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
My take on this , is somewhat different, I suggest that Stride had already serviced a man inside the yard , and more then likely that person was a member of the club.
It therefore is entirely possible, that whilst she was composing herself at the entrance to the yard, another man BS, approached, who attempted to entice her away , when she was reluctant he cut up rough and threw her down .
He noticed Schwartz , and shouted out Lipski, not as a insult to him, but a reference to Stride being a ''Jew lover''.
Schwartz's Pipe man may not have even existed , if one takes the view that as Schwartz had already crossed the road to avoid the confrontation, it might reflect on his mental state. i,e concerned for his own welfare, and used the additional man as an excuse to as to why he fled the scene.
So who killed Liz Stride, and was he our Jack?
I would suggest Broad shouldered did exactly that, when Liz attempted to seek refuge heading towards the club door, he cut her throat and made his escape, and he was not Jack the Ripper, simply a drunken man who took offence to being rejected.
Jack was about to continue his work with Eddowes. some 45 minutes later.
Just a thought.
Regards Richard.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
My take on this , is somewhat different, I suggest that Stride had already serviced a man inside the yard , and more then likely that person was a member of the club.
It therefore is entirely possible, that whilst she was composing herself at the entrance to the yard, another man BS, approached, who attempted to entice her away , when she was reluctant he cut up rough and threw her down .
He noticed Schwartz , and shouted out Lipski, not as a insult to him, bit a reference to Stride being a ''Jew lover''.
Schwartz's Pipe man may not have even existed , if one takes the view that as Schwartz had already crossed the road to avoid the confrontation, it might reflect on his mental state. ie concerned for his own welfare, and used the additional man as an excuse to as to why he fled the scene.
So who killed Liz Stride, and was he our Jack?
I would suggest Broad shouldered did exactly that, when Liz attempted to seek refuge heading towards the club door, he cut her throat and made his escape, and he was not Jack the Ripper, simply a drunken man who took offence to being rejected.
Jack was about to continue his work with Eddowes. some 45 minutes later.
Just a thought.
Regards Richard.

[DRoy]

Jon,

I truly am not a conspiracy theorist so I believe in most cases that things are the way they are. That said, think about this for a second...

None of the witnesses that testified at the inquest provided anything at all. Zip. Nobody saw anything at all. The one person who apparently saw Liz get attacked doesn't testify. The only person who can vouch or verify that attack is Mortimer since the other witnesses are before the attack.

Schwartz saw something and Mortimer saw nothing. In the alternative, Mortimer saw nothing because Schwartz's story didn't happen. Mortimer is a liar or Schwartz is. Mortimer is mistaken or Schwartz was.

Jon, your comment about nobody did not kill her is witty but makes no sense. Anyone that knew she was murdered there could have told the exact same story as Schwartz and they would have looked like just the hero Schwartz does. Reminds me of the Ripper letter about the double event and posted after everyone was aware of it. It's a weak argument.

Pretend for one second...if Schwartz lied and we didn't know about the lie, would he still be an important witness? Yes he would. Because we'd trust him over the seven dwarfs who didn't see anything.

Cheers
DRoy

[Wickerman]

Is Schwartz believed because he claims to have seem something where Mortimer didn't?

Hi DRoy.

Because a body was found in a spot where only minutes before no body was seen, seeing "nobody" is relegated to second place on account of the fact that we all know "nobody" did not kill her.

On the other hand, if Schwartz had seen the Seven Dwarfs passing out of Dutfields Yard everybody would want to know their descriptions, how many had knives, which way they went, which ones ate the grapes.....


Seriously, Schwartz had something to offer, Mortimer - nothing.

.

[lynn cates]

qualification

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Very well. Let's say accuracy is important, caeteris paribus. But, unfortunately, the caeteris ain't always paribus. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

It's plain to me that Mortimer didn't stand at her front door for the full 30 minutes. Not only would she have saw Schwartz and BS, she would also have saw PC Smith, Liz Stride, and the young man with the paper parcel. Regarding the three screams, we don't tend to hear everything from inside our houses, ............... So you see, the attack upon Stride could well have taken place as Schwartz indicated, but Mr's M didn't in fact hear those screams.

Not forgetting Joseph Lave standing on the pavement from 12:30-12:40, and Morris Eagle who tried the front door at 12:40.
Even if inside for a brief moment, if she can normally hear footsteps outside how come she missed the rumble of iron rims across cobblestones and the clip-clop of hooves coming passed her front window?

Mrs Mortimer may have heard the commotion after the body was discovered but she cannot have been standing on her doorstep for any appreciable length of time.

.

[Wickerman]

Notwithstanding, the more accuracy, the better.

Hi Lynn.

At the risk of sounding pedantic the situation we find ourselves in is a little different.

We have suspect 'A' and witnesses 'B', 'C', & 'D'.

Seeing as how suspect 'A' was never located accuracy is an unknown. What we need is consistency among 'B', 'C' & 'D'.

It is the level of expected consistency which is set too high, the degree at which 'we' might find a consensus is often out of reach, I think unreasonably so.

.

[lynn cates]

rain ends

Hello Greg.

"Wasn't it raining on and off that morning you all?"

Rain ended around 11.30.

Cheers.
LC

[DRoy]

Greg,

Good point about the singing and competing noises. However, does absence of such comments mean they existed or does it mean they didn't exist which is why they weren't commented on?

Mortimer does state that she heard loud footsteps, Diemschutz arriving with his pony and cart, and the commotion when the body was found. Again, her confidence in hearing is obviously high because she she said there was no noise made or she would have heard it.

Another interesting comment from her is when she comments on the hearing of the steward's wife. Mortimer is shocked someone so close could not hear Liz being killed.

She seems to have a lot of knowledge about what people could and should have heard. Her personal experiences helped her identify what was going on outside.

So no Greg, I don't believe there were sounds that competed...at least not for Mortimer IMHO.

Cheers
DRoy

[GregBaron]

Competition...

The problem I have with Mortimer is she didn't testify at the inquest. Was she ignored she didn't see Liz or hear BS Man abusing her? Here again, I'd ask the same question as before...

Wasn't it raining on and off that morning you all? And how late were the Jews singing? Perhaps there were competing noises that went unmentioned...


Greg