Where is Liz Stride?

[DRoy]

Lynn,

Dimshits...I laugh every time you use it

Cheers
DRoy

[Jon Guy]

Hi DRoy

If Mortimer could hear steps, wouldn't she also hear Liz screaming three times even if it wasn't very loud?

Not necessarily. The steps were right oustide her door yet the three not very loud screams were around the corner of the club inside the gates.

[DRoy]

To all,

Besides Jon Guy, nobody has answered what I feel is an important question. Is Schwartz believed because he claims to have seem something where Mortimer didn't?

Mortimer said she was almost outside her door the whole time (12:30 - 1:00) which is being interpreted that's how she missed BS Man and Liz. However, she heard loud steps and could hear the commotion when Liz was found so why wouldn't she hear Liz scream even if it wasn't that loudly?

Cheers
DRoy

[GregBaron]

Just the facts Jack...

Lynn,

Dimshits...I laugh every time you use it

Cheers
DRoy

This is indeed a giggler, it's even better that dumbshits.....

why wouldn't she hear Liz scream even if it wasn't that loudly?

Isn't this an oxymoron? Does this mean Liz knew her attacker and was like "Oh god, not you again, get away" kind of thing......Just thinkin'?

Dictionary.com defines a scream thusly: to emit a shrill, piercing sound

Scream not loudly?

I also don't think Schwartzenneger made up stuff. He may have been incorrectly quoted but I doubt the translator made up things either. It's certainly possible but brings to mind the old spy thriller intrigue...


Greg

[Observer]

Hi DRoy

It's plain to me that Mortimer didn't stand at her front door for the full 30 minutes. Not only would she have saw Schwartz and BS, she would also have saw PC Smith, Liz Stride, and the young man with the paper parcel. Regarding the three screams, we don't tend to hear everything from inside our houses, especially when occupied doing some chore or task. Mr's M, could well have been chasing some pesky fly around the house, swatter in hand. She could well have been re-potting that root bound aspidistra, or even applying flea powder to her loppy cat. She could easily have been arm wrestling her husband. So you see, the attack upon Stride could well have taken place as Schwartz indicated, but Mr's M didn't in fact hear those screams.

Regards

Observer

[The Good Michael]

It's plain to me that Mortimer didn't stand at her front door for the full 30 minutes. Not only would she have saw Schwartz and BS, she would also have saw PC Smith, Liz Stride, and the young man with the paper parcel. Regarding the three screams, we don't tend to hear everything from inside our houses, especially when occupied doing some chore or task. Mr's M, could well have been chasing some pesky fly around the house, swatter in hand. She could well have been re-potting that root bound aspidistra, or even applying flea powder to her loppy cat. She could easily have been arm wrestling her husband. So you see, the attack upon Stride could well have taken place as Schwartz indicated, but Mr's M didn't in fact hear those screams.

I agree. It was as if she kept going back inside to check on a pie or something. I think if she even was out at all, she wasn't paying any attention and was happy to just talk to the police.

Mike

[DRoy]

Greg,

It is an oxymoron but that's what Schwartz said, not me. Wait, apparently that's what he said.

Cheers
DRoy

[lynn cates]

translation

Hello Roy. Thanks.

Ah! Direct translation from the Yiddish.

Cheers.
LC

[DRoy]

Observer & Mike,

Why do you have that perception of Mortimer? She said she was standing at her door "nearly the whole time". She didn't say periodically, she didn't say she was baking a pie and she didn't say she was busy swatting flies!

She follows that up by saying she heard commotion outside. Then she says "there was certainly no noise made" when talking about Liz being murdered. If she could be so sure no noise was made then it must be because she would have heard it. In other words, she knows how sound travelled and obviously feels she has great hearing. So great in fact she heard what she said was a policeman's heavy stomp. She heard this from inside her house so even if she was in her house she would have heard Liz scream unless Liz's scream was whispered!

The problem I have with Mortimer is she didn't testify at the inquest. Was she ignored she didn't see Liz or hear BS Man abusing her? Here again, I'd ask the same question as before...

Cheers
DRoy

[GregBaron]

Competition...

The problem I have with Mortimer is she didn't testify at the inquest. Was she ignored she didn't see Liz or hear BS Man abusing her? Here again, I'd ask the same question as before...

Wasn't it raining on and off that morning you all? And how late were the Jews singing? Perhaps there were competing noises that went unmentioned...


Greg

[DRoy]

Greg,

Good point about the singing and competing noises. However, does absence of such comments mean they existed or does it mean they didn't exist which is why they weren't commented on?

Mortimer does state that she heard loud footsteps, Diemschutz arriving with his pony and cart, and the commotion when the body was found. Again, her confidence in hearing is obviously high because she she said there was no noise made or she would have heard it.

Another interesting comment from her is when she comments on the hearing of the steward's wife. Mortimer is shocked someone so close could not hear Liz being killed.

She seems to have a lot of knowledge about what people could and should have heard. Her personal experiences helped her identify what was going on outside.

So no Greg, I don't believe there were sounds that competed...at least not for Mortimer IMHO.

Cheers
DRoy

[lynn cates]

rain ends

Hello Greg.

"Wasn't it raining on and off that morning you all?"

Rain ended around 11.30.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Notwithstanding, the more accuracy, the better.

Hi Lynn.

At the risk of sounding pedantic the situation we find ourselves in is a little different.

We have suspect 'A' and witnesses 'B', 'C', & 'D'.

Seeing as how suspect 'A' was never located accuracy is an unknown. What we need is consistency among 'B', 'C' & 'D'.

It is the level of expected consistency which is set too high, the degree at which 'we' might find a consensus is often out of reach, I think unreasonably so.

.

[Wickerman]

It's plain to me that Mortimer didn't stand at her front door for the full 30 minutes. Not only would she have saw Schwartz and BS, she would also have saw PC Smith, Liz Stride, and the young man with the paper parcel. Regarding the three screams, we don't tend to hear everything from inside our houses, ............... So you see, the attack upon Stride could well have taken place as Schwartz indicated, but Mr's M didn't in fact hear those screams.

Not forgetting Joseph Lave standing on the pavement from 12:30-12:40, and Morris Eagle who tried the front door at 12:40.
Even if inside for a brief moment, if she can normally hear footsteps outside how come she missed the rumble of iron rims across cobblestones and the clip-clop of hooves coming passed her front window?

Mrs Mortimer may have heard the commotion after the body was discovered but she cannot have been standing on her doorstep for any appreciable length of time.

.

[lynn cates]

qualification

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Very well. Let's say accuracy is important, caeteris paribus. But, unfortunately, the caeteris ain't always paribus. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC