saving Liz Stride

[c.d.]

Hi C.D.



It`s about 12.45, and Liz is leaning against the gate listening to the music when she looks left and see`s B.S. Man walking down the street. She instinctively reaches down into her pocket and takes out her mints.

Ok, fine. How do the cachous survive Liz being thrown to the ground as Schwartz described. They were simply wrapped in a tissue. Why did they not break and spill out?

c.d.

[Roy Corduroy]

Very good, Jon.

I do think BS man was her killer. And taking that position, I don't need to explain why an everyday item was found clutched in her hand.

And then there's Michael, who doesn't consider breath mints to be an everyday item. That's like if you see six cars, and one of them has that little air-freshener thingie hanging from the rear-veiw mirror, you know the one that looks like a little Chrismas tree? So that car is "different."

Breath mints are a common everyday item. Murder victims are found clutching common everyday items in their hands. It's happened for thosands of years and will continue. If the murder victim was clutching William Bury's business card, yes, by all means that would require an explanation.

It is incumbent upon those who feel that breath mints are not a common everyday item to make those explanations. Not me.

Roy

ps Rob House, certainly, the murderer could have put the cachous in her hand. Anything but your prayers.

[c.d.]

Hi Roy,

Breath mints ARE an every day common item. I repeat - breath mints ARE an every day common item. You are CORRECT!!!

But you are missing the point. The cachous are an extremely important clue. It all has to do with WHEN Liz took the mints out.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

plausible scenario

Hello Jon. The assault was about 10 feet away from the spot where Liz died. The only plausible reconstruction I've heard so far is Archaic's "cut Liz whilst taking out the cachous" and then dragging her the 10 feet. The main requirement there is to explain the 10 feet of dragging and perhaps an explanation as to how Liz wound up on her side and not back.

The best.
LC

[Roy Corduroy]

It all has to do with WHEN Liz took the mints out.

I thought Jon Guy just explained that.

Roy

[c.d.]

Hi Roy,

He did. But I am waiting for his response to my post (no. 61).

c.d.

[Jon Guy]

How do the cachous survive Liz being thrown to the ground as Schwartz described.

Either, the attack was so sudden that she didn`t have time to drop anything, or she had made a fist around them defending herself.

They were simply wrapped in a tissue. Why did they not break and spill out?

Doctor Blackwell stated that that he found the paper lodged between her thumb and first finger, Doctor Phillips saw some that had spilled out across the yard, so maybe she was dropping them, so to speak, when she died.

[c.d.]

Hi Jon,

I am simply speaking of Liz being thrown to the ground as Schwartz described not her being killed. You are equating the two and there is no evidence of that. They are two different events.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

direction

Hello Archaic.

"Another idea is that the Ripper himself handed her the package of cachous just before killing her? Maybe they were his. Perhaps he helped Liz straighten her skirts then said something like, "Here have this before you go inside, you'll feel better" and as she automatically took the little package he grabbed her and slit her throat."

No problem with this. Indeed, it is quite plausible. Of course, she needs to be facing the gates but not the door. In other words, it's like she is going away, not going inside.

The best.
LC

[Jon Guy]

The assault was about 10 feet away from the spot where Liz died.

Hi there Lynn,

I can`t get drawn into this again, my friend, it`s on an old thread, but basically Schwartz said he saw a man stop and try and pull a woman into the street BUT he turned her around, so she must be facing into the yard, and threw her down on the footway, which was the path worn into the stones that ran along the side of the club, where she was found.

I have previously posted the source of the reference to locals referring to a footway alongside the club.

[lynn cates]

blame the doctor

Hello Jon.

"Doctor Blackwell stated that that he found the paper lodged between her thumb and first finger, Doctor Phillips saw some that had spilled out across the yard, so maybe she was dropping them, so to speak, when she died."

One of the doctors admitted to spilling them in removing them from Liz's hand. When initially found, they were intact.

The best.
LC

[lynn cates]

what a drag

Hello Jon. I refer to the body placement post mortem.

No need to be drawn in. I think Archaic has given the least implausible account. If any account can save Liz's place, it is his.

Now to account for why he drags her body 10 feet.

The best.
LC

[c.d.]

Hi Lynn,

But first you have to explain why the cachous didn't break when the BS man threw Liz to the ground. (Why am I getting a sense of deja vu here?)

c.d.

[lynn cates]

Archaic emendation

Hello CD.

"But first you have to explain why the cachous didn't break when the BS man threw Liz to the ground."

Well, what if they were not out yet? BS man throws her down, she calls out softly 3 times. BS departs.

Now, enter Jack. Everyone is certain Liz is soliciting. Very well. Jack helps her up, dusts her off, she solicits, he hums and haws and gives her the cachous. She accepts, scarf drawn tight. Fist clenches. Throat gets cut.

(So far so good? Hmmm.)

Now Jack needs to drag her a good 10 feet to her final resting place and turn her 90 degrees, given he were dragging her on her back.

The best.
LC

[c.d.]

Hi Lynn,

Well it seems like you have eliminated the BS man and now have Jack on the scene. I'd say that is a damn good start.

c.d.