From Mitre Square to Goulston Street - Some thoughts.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

That's what Anderson said, too, about the Ripper writing the GSG.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

That is not correct.

He used those words when he was claiming that the Whitechapel Murderer was a Polish Jew.

My own use of those words was meant humorously.

[Aethelwulf]

But by leaving the apron and writing the graffiti in that off-road location how was he to know that they would ever be found, and more importantly linked to the Eddowes murder because for a start the graffiti bore no relevance to any murder past or present, and the apron piece was nothing more than a screwed up piece of rag.?

I did reply to your content:

• You're arguing about something that did happen as if it didn't.
• The rag was found and matched to Eddowes' apron.

Also, the ripper knew the local area well. He would probably have had an idea of what passed for ordinary graffiti compared to what might be taken notice of, as proved by events.

I introduced the side issue because it is relevant. Across multiple threads it can be shown that your one and only interest in the apron is trying to prove it was actually a sanitary towel.

[Trevor Marriott]

You're arguing about something that did happen as if it didn't.

The rag was found and matched to Eddowes' apron.

It doesn't matter want angle you try and put on it, it wasn't a sanitary towel!

I am simply asking a question that in my opinion is totally relevant to the matter being discussed

If you are going to reply kindly reply to the content of the post you are replying to and do not introduce side issues which at this time are not relevant

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Aethelwulf]

Hi Tom
But by leaving the apron and writing the graffiti in that off-road location how was he to know that they would ever be found, and more importantly linked to the Eddowes murder because for a start the graffiti bore no relevance to any murder past or present, and the apron piece was nothing more than a screwed up piece of rag.?

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

You're arguing about something that did happen as if it didn't.

The rag was found and matched to Eddowes' apron.

It doesn't matter want angle you try and put on it, it wasn't a sanitary towel!

[Aethelwulf]

If the GSG referred to anything I believe it could only have been the Berner Street Club, plastered as it was outside in Hebrew literature. The point of leaving Eddowe's apron beneath the writing was to connect the two crimes. He was concerned he wouldn't get credit for Stride due to the lack of mutilation. He needn't have worried, as it turns out.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Yes that is exactly as I see it. I was just speculating that as well he may have had an underlying prejudice.

[Trevor Marriott]

If the GSG referred to anything I believe it could only have been the Berner Street Club, plastered as it was outside in Hebrew literature. The point of leaving Eddowe's apron beneath the writing was to connect the two crimes. He was concerned he wouldn't get credit for Stride due to the lack of mutilation. He needn't have worried, as it turns out.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom
But by leaving the apron and writing the graffiti in that off-road location how was he to know that they would ever be found, and more importantly linked to the Eddowes murder because for a start the graffiti bore no relevance to any murder past or present, and the apron piece was nothing more than a screwed up piece of rag.?

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Tom_Wescott]

Yes that too. I reckon JtR already had some petty grievance (real or imagined) against the Jewish community (maybe along the lines of 'why are they doing better than me' in a racist context). Schwartz and Lawende reminded him of his prejudice.

If the GSG referred to anything I believe it could only have been the Berner Street Club, plastered as it was outside in Hebrew literature. The point of leaving Eddowe's apron beneath the writing was to connect the two crimes. He was concerned he wouldn't get credit for Stride due to the lack of mutilation. He needn't have worried, as it turns out.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

This may be a dumb question because the answer may be obvious, but I'm sure there may be more than one opinion on this and I'm interested
to the hear them all:

Why did Crawford spend so much time establishing the actual spelling of the second word (the "J" word") of the writing on the wall?

Martyn

More like 'attempting' to establish it, since they were never able to reach a consensus. He must have been as perplexed as we are as to why no two people could read that sentence or remember it the same way, and the second word is the crux of the whole thing. If it even was a word, that is. We'll never know thanks to the "abundance of caution" on display that night. Man, I wish I had a photograph of that writing.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

I am merely stating a definitely ascertained fact.

That's what Anderson said, too, about the Ripper writing the GSG.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

So let me make sure I understand your position. Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Minister of Propaganda, who was not born until 1897, is your go-to guy for how we should interpret the GSG?

You lost the argument comprehensively and if you insist, I'll reproduce it here so any interested readers can see for themselves.

Please do, I would like to see what our fellow posters have to say.

c.d.

sure as shooting the other side (the Jews) fired back and and there was pro Jewish sentiment expressed as well in the graffiti in Whitechapel. That is just human nature.

... do you think Jewish people simply read it and said damn that is insulting and demeaning but hey what can I do about it? Or is it reasonable to expect that they defended themselves when all that took was a piece of chalk, a minute of their time with no risk of being punched because they were anonymous?

And finally, just look at these boards, do most posters accept what they think are cheap shots and snotty remarks without firing back in kind. It's human nature, buddy.

(c.d., # 350 & # 384, Jack's Escape Route?)



Your analogy is not a valid one.

What was happening in Whitechapel was not a case of two rival groups.

It was a case of anti-Semitism - of prejudice on the part of many local people against Jews.

There were reports of anti-Jewish graffiti but not of anti-Christian graffiti.

Men marched down Hanbury Street, chanting 'Down with the Jews!'

Jews did not march down Petticoat Lane, chanting 'Down with the gentiles!'

In the cases of Chapman and Kelly, witnesses described Jewish supposed-suspects.

In the case of the assault on Stride, a well-known anti-Jewish insult was shouted at the witness, who was of Jewish appearance.

Neither of the two Jewish witnesses, Schwartz and Lawende, stated that the suspect was of gentile appearance, although both suspects obviously were gentiles.

There were graffiti accusing the Jews of involvement in the murders.

There were no graffiti accusing the gentiles of involvement in the murders.

Superintendent Arnold and Sir Charles Warren were worried that there would be an anti-Jewish pogrom.

The police were not worried that there would be an anti-gentile pogrom.

You are making an invalid comparison and there is no evidence to back up what you are suggesting happened.

(PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, # 389)



Just common sense, experience and an understanding of human nature. I didn't expect you to agree but that is fine. That is what these boards are for.

(c.d., # 391)

[c.d.]

So let me make sure I understand your position. Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Minister of Propaganda, who was not born until 1897, is your go-to guy for how we should interpret the GSG?

You lost the argument comprehensively and if you insist, I'll reproduce it here so any interested readers can see for themselves.

Please do, I would like to see what our fellow posters have to say.

c.d.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

What Goebbels had to say about Jews is completely irrelevant to the GSG unless he himself wrote it.

I lost the argument only in your own mind not the real world.

You seem to have a real problem in equating your opinion with an established fact. You have been criticized for this numerous times by various posters, am I right?

What Goebbels said is not irrelevant - because the GSG is part of a long tradition of blaming Jews for acts they had not committed.

It seems you don't have any such problem as the one you say I have.

You can state that something is completely irrelevant and that is somehow not an opinion.

Somehow, when you state it, it becomes an established fact.

You lost the argument comprehensively and if you insist, I'll reproduce it here so any interested readers can see for themselves.

[c.d.]

What Goebbels had to say about Jews is completely irrelevant to the GSG unless he himself wrote it.

I lost the argument only in your own mind not the real world.

You seem to have a real problem in equating your opinion with an established fact. You have been criticized for this numerous times by various posters, am I right?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

As I pointed out before, there is a very long (and continuing) and disreputable tradition of blaming Jews for everything, including the Black Death, both World Wars, 9/11, and Covid-19.

I gave three examples of Goebbels playing that game and their similarities to the Whitechapel Murderer's effort are striking, including the use of the double definite article.

Anyone can take a look at our friendly argument about alleged Jewish retaliatory graffiti in the East End and see that you did lose it.

I am merely stating a definitely ascertained fact.

[c.d.]

As I argued before, there is no reason to suppose that Jews tolerated anti-Jewish graffiti chalked at the entrances to their dwellings.

If they did do so during the autumn of terror, why would Warren and Arnold have thought that the removal of such graffiti needed to be done urgently in this case?

c.d. suggested previously that there were retaliatory pro-Jewish graffiti and I believe I comprehensively demolished the idea.

Again, you are assuming that the GSG is anti-Jewish but unless you yourself wrote it that is just your opinion. The same goes for Warren and Arnold. Done out of an abundance of caution. That tells us nothing about the GSG. They may have thought Queen Victoria wrote it but again just their opinion. Not an established fact no matter how often you reference them.

You "comprehensively demolished the idea"? I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that you have never lost an argument. Am I right? Demolished it in your own mind or some sort of Superman Bizzaro World but not in the same world as the rest of us mere mortals who post on Caseboook inhabit.

c.d.