Kate's Last Half Hour

[Michael W Richards]

If there were defensive wounds it shows that she was not strangled first.

It also confirms my belief that the wounds to her face were also defensive type wounds, with her trying to avoid the killers knife, and that shows that the nose was not specifically targeted, and that she was not laying down when her throat was finally cut

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

I think Marys throat was cut with her back turned, it sprayed the wall, and she flopped back onto her back trying to fend off further slashes to her face. I don't see choking as being needed here Trevor. Buts that's for another thread....

[Sam Flynn]

Kellys nose lost a piece in a swing of the knife.

Where is that stated of Kelly?

Back to Eddowes - how can you say that the nose was "specifically" targeted, when there were multiple cuts to the rest of her face (lips, cheeks, chin, eyes and earlobe)?

PS: It is not my theory that the chevrons on the cheeks were caused by the cutting off of the nose - that was Wickerman's suggestion, and I believe that the cut he had in mind isn't the one that lopped off the tip of the nose, but the one higher up on the bridge of the nose. All I pointed out in my Ripperologist article was that the chevrons weren't carved or "written" into the skin by a knife used point-downwards, but were triangular flaps of flesh formed as a natural consequence of a blade slicing through the skin over the cheeks.

[Trevor Marriott]

Where is that stated of Kelly?

Back to Eddowes - how can you say that the nose was "specifically" targeted, when there were multiple cuts to the rest of her face (lips, cheeks, chin, eyes and earlobe)?

PS: It is not my theory that the chevrons on the cheeks were caused by the cutting off of the nose - that was Wickerman's suggestion, and I believe that the cut he had in mind isn't the one that lopped off the tip of the nose, but the one higher up on the bridge of the nose. All I pointed out in my Ripperologist article was that the chevrons weren't carved or "written" into the skin by a knife used point-downwards, but were triangular flaps of flesh formed a natural consequence of a blade slicing through the skin over the cheeks.

For once we seem to agree !

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Michael W Richards]

Where is that stated of Kelly?

Back to Eddowes - how can you say that the nose was "specifically" targeted, when there were multiple cuts to the rest of her face (lips, cheeks, chin, eyes and earlobe)?

PS: It is not my theory that the chevrons on the cheeks were caused by the cutting off of the nose - that was Wickerman's suggestion, and I believe that the cut he had in mind isn't the one that lopped off the tip of the nose, but the one higher up on the bridge of the nose. All I pointed out in my Ripperologist article was that the chevrons weren't carved or "written" into the skin by a knife used point-downwards, but were triangular flaps of flesh formed as a natural consequence of a blade slicing through the skin over the cheeks.

Bonds autopsy on Mary:"

The face was gashed in all directions the nose cheeks, eyebrows and ears being partly removed. The lips were blanched & cut by several incisions running obliquely down to the chin. There were also numerous cuts extending irregularly across all the features."

Consistent with a knife slashing attack.

This image seems to me to have focus on the nose cuts. Maybe since it was so dark there were collateral wounds, maybe because of the dark he mistakenly cut the colon. I also believe that the chevrons were intentionally made, but that's another discussion.

[Sam Flynn]

This image seems to me to have focus on the nose cuts.

Because the nose is in the middle of the face, perhaps? Eddowes had many other facial wounds, some of them savage in their execution, but because they don't fit the "snitch" theory, we can ignore them?

Eddowes was a middle-aged nobody, a penniless waif who lived from hand to mouth and from doss-house to doss-house. A tragic, sparrow-like woman who'd spent much of the Autumn of Terror out of town picking hops with her down-and-out, middle-aged boyfriend. How would such a woman get involved with a bunch of organised criminals who decided to bump her off because she was blackmailing them? What kind of organised criminals would think it would be a good idea to dispose of a snitch by disembowelling and eviscerating her in a public square patrolled by two policemen?

Eddowes' death was no "snitch-killing", Michael.

[Leanne]

Sooner than that, during which time we know that she had first to find her killer (or, rather, vice versa),

She left Bishopsgate at 1:00,
She was seen alive by Lawende around 1:35 near Mitre Square.
THAT'S 65 MINUTES LATER.

[Leanne]

But it was a false address, and she also gave a false name.

There is no reason, and precious little time, to suspect that she went there after her release. If she went to Fashion Street, got some food, tarried there a little while perhaps looking for shelter, then headed back to the vicinity of Mitre Square, that leaves practically no time whatsoever for Jack to spot her, make his move, and walk with her to the site of her murder.

It may have been the name she went by at Fashion Street! She gave the surname of Kelly. In the Jewish faith she HAD to be married to John KELLY.
And if she feared a fine-hiding she didn't want to go back to John Kelly, but back to the address she intended to spend the night.

I AM NOT SAYING THAT SHE WENT TO FASHION STREET AND ATE, SHE DIDN'T MAKE IT!
and it was too early for them to serve breakfast.
I believe that's where she INTENDED to go after selling her own apron to pay a price for a bed, but she got a better offer!!!!

[DJA]

She left Bishopsgate at 1:00,
She was seen alive by Lawende around 1:35 near Mitre Square.
THAT'S 65 MINUTES LATER.

Do you have a relative named Karen?

[DJA]

I also believe that the chevrons were intentionally made, but that's another discussion.

The chevrons point to the maxillary sinuses.
The nose cut denotes an entry point for streptococcus pyogenes which causes rheumatic fever after infecting the above.

I believe both Eddowes and Nichols were Jack's inpatients in 1867/68 with the disease.
Nichols was killed immediately after Eddowes departed for Kent.
Nichols had just moved next door to Eddowes.
The bacteria lives in the gut.
Eddowes returned for financial gain.

Incidentally,Eddowes was using Mary Ann Kelly as an alias.
That was MJK's real name.She was 29 years of age.
Baptized at the church where Jack was the Vestry Board's medical officer.

6 Fashion Street was immediately behind 32 Flower and Dean Street where Stride lived.
Stride's bottom lip showed signs of hereditary hemorrhagic telangietcasia. Symptoms were treated by catechu/cachous.

Chapman had TB,a specialty of Jack's.

The addresses of the five women during the murders paints a picture.

[Wickerman]

If there were defensive wounds it shows that she was not strangled first.

Why?
What that suggests to me is she was unconscious for a moment, but came too within seconds. She didn't die of asphyxiation, like Stride she was just senseless for a moment, thats all the time he needed to lay her down.

It also confirms my belief that the wounds to her face were also defensive type wounds, with her trying to avoid the killers knife, and that shows that the nose was not specifically targeted, and that she was not laying down when her throat was finally cut

No, those are not defensive wounds on her face.

[Wickerman]

Kellys nose lost a piece in a swing of the knife, Kates was cut with a blade pressed or sliced across, more than just the tip by the stitches shown in the image from the mortuary.. Marys whole face suffered trauma, Kate whole face did not. No marks of her forehead, and by your own theory, the chevrons related to the nose cut. The nose was cut specifically Sam, there is no legitimate argument against that.

Surely Kate not Kelly.

There seems to be two different wounds to the nose, three if we want to be pedantic.

Not in any particular order, but the first wound straight across the bridge of the nose aligns with the two cuts to her cheeks. One sweep of the knife sliced into her cheeks and cut through the bridge of the nose.

The second wound cut the bridge of the nose at the very same point, but the knife then sliced downwards across her right cheek.

The third cut removes the tip of her nose, I think this wound is purely inconsequential because he was working in the dark.

There is no rational reason for the vertical nicks to her eyelids, I think it was a gesture. In the press the week before, the idea was published that an image of the killer was retained in the eyes of the victim. I think he was just making the statement - I read that article.

[Wickerman]

She left Bishopsgate at 1:00,
She was seen alive by Lawende around 1:35 near Mitre Square.
THAT'S 65 MINUTES LATER.

You need a new calculator, Leanne.

[Leanne]

I think Marys throat was cut with her back turned, it sprayed the wall, and she flopped back onto her back trying to fend off further slashes to her face. I don't see choking as being needed here Trevor. Buts that's for another thread....

Wouldn't having her throat cut render her unable to fend off further slashes?

[Leanne]

But it was a false address, and she also gave a false name.

There is no reason, and precious little time, to suspect that she went there after her release. If she went to Fashion Street, got some food, tarried there a little while perhaps looking for shelter, then headed back to the vicinity of Mitre Square, that leaves practically no time whatsoever for Jack to spot her, make his move, and walk with her to the site of her murder.

HOW EMBARRASING! I MADE A BOO BOO!

I am not saying she went to Fashion Street first. I am saying that she was on her way there, intended to eat and stay there rather than go back to Flower and Dean Street. But met Jack first who offered her a 'job'.

She left the police station at 1:00, was seen alive at around 1:30 and was dead an unknown time after that.

[FISHY1118]

There is no positive i.d of kate from the moment she left the police staion at 1.00 am till she was found dead at 1.45am. Fact.