Kate's Last Half Hour

[Lipsky]

[QUOTE=Leanne;n720467]

I don't see how or why you included Liz Stride in the equation Leanne,[//QUOTE]
DJA thinks that a Eddowes and Stride planned to blackmail the Ripper. The offer of a reward for INFORMATION appeared in the Morning Adveritiser on the 21st of September, (while Kate and John were away hopping).

As Dave already mentioned, by Sept. 27 they were back, given not only sufficient time to pick up on the news for the reward, but in addition, speeding up their scheme because of that recently-apprehended development. The last 48 hours provide enough, if fragmented, information to substantiate that. The last half hour is pure proof that Kate's movements were towards a pre-designated course of action, and by no means random, since she locates herself by her own free will remarkably close to Jewish site #2.

My suggested empirical scheme is that the notion of blackmail began long before the reward was offered anyway, hence the previous attacks, "canonical" or otherwise.

1. If Kate's trajectory post-release was random, the sheer force of statistics would place her anywhere in Whitechapel other than extremely correlated geographical vicinity to Jewish site #2. The short time between release and murder proves that the hit on her was pre-conceived and she was probably waited for at meeting point, or made sure she was there, regardless of time of release. It's a tight scheme, but less incredible than the "randomness" of her placing herself at Jewish Site #2 given the bound probability that another murder would have taken place on the same night at the "other" Jewish site (again, point out that these two sites provide the two competing classes of each capitalist society/nation, in our case the Jewish one).

2. Why probability theory is a systemic tool to analyse this: The bound probability that a second murder, within extremely short time, next to a Jewish site, after the carrying out of another murder at the first Jewish site, is extremely low, on sheer force of statistics.

A low probability demonstrates a highly correlated set of two acts, and deems the probability of these events being random very unlikely.

The bound probability that an anti-semite graffiti would appear on one of the killer's possible escate routes, given the two previous probabilities, is even lower, rendering the event very highly correlated.

3. This series of very narrowly (in terms of time-scale) carried out actions leaves us with two options: a very fast spontaneous course of actions "on the spot" or a pre-designated operation. It is absurd to believe that three acts that would attempt to incriminate Jews and provide a new "scapegoat" much more dangerous and socially incendiary than earlier "Leather Apron/Pizer" is spontaneous as the killer makes headway between "random" locations and "random" hits, in a serial killer case. I am sorry, the logical fallacy here is infinite.

4. The fact that we are able to correlate Kate's "curious" trajectory post-release to her murder, and to "curious" happenings in the last 48 hours, followed by "curious" fallacies by John Kelly at the inquest, leaves really little room for speculation.

We could wrap it up as our man would have emphasized:

The denialists are not the men that will be blamed for nothing

[Lipsky]

If the papers are to be believed.


Echo London Middlesex November 9, 1888

It is very interesting that the newspapers did, some of them at least, much better work than the police (or what we publicly know of police work).
Funny how retired gentlemen with a penchant for public memoirs and confidentials memos failed to grasp/evaluate all this correlating evidence.
Probably too busy seeking out polish barbers or obscure russians. (Cuz our man couldnt have been a brit, right?)

[Joshua Rogan]

[QUOTE=Leanne;n720467]

I don't see how or why you included Liz Stride in the equation Leanne,[//QUOTE]
DJA thinks that a Eddowes and Stride planned to blackmail the Ripper. The offer of a reward for INFORMATION appeared in the Morning Adveritiser on the 21st of September, (while Kate and John were away hopping).

Actually it appeared in the press as early as the 11th Sept., eg

Echo London, U.K. 11 September 1888 Mr. S. Montagu, M.P., has assumed the functions of the Home Office. He has offered a reward of £100 for the capture of the murderer of Annie Chapman. It is well, however, to remember that Mr. Montagu represents the Whitechapel Division in Parliament.

[Lipsky]

[QUOTE=Joshua Rogan;n720488]

Actually it appeared in the press as early as the 11th Sept.

Echo London, U.K. 11 September 1888 Mr. S. Montagu, M.P., has assumed the functions of the Home Office. He has offered a reward of £100 for the capture of the murderer of Annie Chapman. It is well, however, to remember that Mr. Montagu represents the Whitechapel Division in Parliament.

Thank you for this information, Joshua.

I maintain that there was a blackmail scheme launched way before Chapman's murder, probably before the first attack on February 25, 1888, and for a higher sum.

Source of the blackmail was a sex scandal, probably with hardcore / bdsm / NC elements, aimed at someone who had much more than 100 pounds to lose (public indigation, trial, prison).

Subsequent attacks upped the stakes, and further rewards even more so, rendering the blackmailing group greedier and sloppier (like a Guy Ritchie flick where everything goes straight downhill).

For our man though , upping the stakes (and rewards) simply makes him more efficient, in terms of spectacular terrorism, right up to MJK, though I credit the Double Event as the most stunning act, operation-wise. This is why post-fact research for clues and correlation starts here.

[Joshua Rogan]

And on the 27th they were back in London, purportedly seeking the reward.

By 2am Sunday 30th September both Eddowes and Stride were dead,having been murdered about an hour apart.

An hour earlier Eddowes' had given her jailer the real name of the last victim along with the address immediately behind Strides' current lodging house.
Stride was at 32 Flower and Dean,Eddowes at 55.
The first victim had lived at 56,her last address.

Apology for the repeat as it gets too sound a bit "fishy"

If Eddowes was in cahoots with the other women to blackmail the killer, why on earth was she giving the names and addresses of her confederates to all and sundry? Seems a bit foolish.

[Lipsky]

If Eddowes was in cahoots with the other women to blackmail the killer, why on earth was she giving the names and addresses of her confederates to all and sundry? Seems a bit foolish.

It's a classic scheme, really. A bunch of out-of-their-lucks and a bit out-of-their-minds (alcoholism provides no good ally, hence why our killer was sober, though he could have been hard on liquor in the past --- and indeed, the only named suspect that fits the profile was an alcoholic-cum-sober) unfortunates learn something deeply incriminating and scandalous about someone "higher up the ladder". Voila! What a better way to cash their way out of misery. Only miserable souls believe they can achieve such a stunt -- and almost always the result is disastrous.

As the stakes are upped, and murder unfolds, they remain on course, but sloppiness prevails. If these women on the Double Event were led to pre-designated meetings to "negotiate" their price, they would want to make sure to their "meeting parties" that they had someone else behind who was also aware. Like telling someone they cant harm you cuz you have an "email planned to be sent after midnight to the press if i dont make it home safe" etc. So they made sure to name their "backers" behind them. Probably MJK was the source of the blackmailing info, and probably she had the back (and street ears/muscle boys) of her own protector (it's nice to have a landlord leaving you way way way back on your rent, ja?).

After all, if this was a blackmailing group willing to substantiate against their "target" that their claims/intimate knowledge was legit, they wouldnt mind naming their source / coordinator, in first contact (probably late January/early February 1888) and/or in various other occurences of written/recorded names, available for the police to look up to, for instance, if some drama occured.

Well the drama occured, and the police failed to pursuit any other line other than "the victims were random".
Tragically, these women thought they were safer than what really was the case with them. Yes, foolish, they should have known better, but really, can you blame them?

[DJA]

If Eddowes was in cahoots with the other women to blackmail the killer, why on earth was she giving the names and addresses of her confederates to all and sundry? Seems a bit foolish.

Reckon she was confident that she had beaten the status quo and that Stride would be waiting with the money.

Never said they were very good at the caper.

[Sam Flynn]

If people want to discuss a conspiracy between victims, can they please take it to a non-Eddowes-specific thread?

[DJA]

If people want to discuss a conspiracy between victims, can they please take it to a non-Eddowes-specific thread?

You have been quite happy to discuss other things on this thread like Fenians,Dorset Street,etc,etc.

Have someone pick up the rattle you threw out of your pram and hopefully they will put your pacifier back in.

[Leanne]

[QUOTE=Joshua Rogan;n720488]

Actually it appeared in the press as early as the 11th Sept., eg

Echo London, U.K. 11 September 1888 Mr. S. Montagu, M.P., has assumed the functions of the Home Office. He has offered a reward of £100 for the capture of the murderer of Annie Chapman. It is well, however, to remember that Mr. Montagu represents the Whitechapel Division in Parliament.

For the CAPTURE of the Murderer of Annie Chapman.
The press report I quoted said it was for INFORMATION.

[Leanne]

[QUOTE=Lipsky;n720489]

Thank you for this information, Joshua.

I maintain that there was a blackmail scheme launched way before Chapman's murder, probably before the first attack on February 25, 1888, and for a higher sum.

a
YOU'RE WAY OFF THE TRUTH!

[Leanne]

The reward was offered for THE CAPTURE OF THE MURDERER!!!!

The Offer of a reward for information kept on being denied by the police because it tended to lead them off the trail. Every man and his dog would have tried to claim it!

[Leanne]

[QUOTE=Joshua Rogan;n720488]

Actually it appeared in the press as early as the 11th Sept., eg

Echo London, U.K. 11 September 1888 Mr. S. Montagu, M.P., has assumed the functions of the Home Office. He has offered a reward of £100 for the capture of the murderer of Annie Chapman. It is well, however, to remember that Mr. Montagu represents the Whitechapel Division in Parliament.

Was she going to CAPTURE Jack by threatening him with her white handled table knife? Then tie him up with the 12 pieces of rag to0 claim the reward?

[Leanne]

[QUOTE=Lipsky;n720489]

Thank you for this information, Joshua.

I maintain that there was a blackmail scheme launched way before Chapman's murder, probably before the first attack on February 25, 1888, and for a higher sum.

A BLACKMAIL SCHEME FOR WHAT??????

Why was Annie Millwood attacked on February 25 and allowed to get away and recover to die of causes "unrelatated to her vicious attack'?

[Leanne]

the suggested meeting might have originally been for midnight, before she overdid it that afternoon. Surely midnight would be a good time for n'er do wells?

was she told to take her white handled table knife & pins and needles with her?..