Jack's Escape from Mitre Square

[DJA]

All this , assuming Eddows was if fact [and its not a fact] the women Lawende identified . Eddows more likely entered Mitre street at 1.33am 7 min till Harvey stood at the end of church passage 10 mins before Watkins discovered her body . Simple as that .

Ever consider that Henry,oops,Jack the Ripper had kept a home away from home,namely on the Knole House estate at Sevenoaks,at 6 Mitre Street since 1885.

If Eddowes headed there on release and was incapacitated until the gap in patrols occurred,the uncanny timings make sense.

Jack took his time and left with the apron to create a false trail.

[Sam Flynn]

I thin we sould not get to carried away with this rain stopping issue. We all have been faced with situations where we have encountered heavy rain showrs and have taken shelter. But do we wait for the rain to completely stop before moving on, or do we move on when it has almost stopped. Me I do the latter and dont get clothes wet to the point where it would be noticeable to anyone.

It helps if you know that you're not too far away from somewhere warm, and/or a change of clothes. Eddowes had none of those luxuries.

[DJA]

Or did she .......

[Wickerman]

So wick , do you think it was the Eddows couple Lawende saw based on whats been discussed.yes/no ?

I never did FISHY. I have always argued for caution against taking it as cast in stone, which many people do.
All these women of the night dressed in black or dark clothing, and Lawende was not allowed to look at Eddowes face because he only saw the woman from the rear. It isn't the foregone conclusion that most Ripperologists assume it to be.

[Michael W Richards]

Reckon he was ambidextrous

Many surgeons are.

My suspect was partially deaf.
Possibly from being hit on the left ear for using his left hand in his younger years.
He lectured on anatomy/pathology with his left hand secured by a pocket.

In point of fact only 1% of any given population are ambidextrous, its exceedingly rare.

[DJA]

Might want to check the facts.

[Michael W Richards]

Might want to check the facts.

If that is addressed to my post then then you should check your own facts before suggesting someone elses are skewed. 1% of any given population are what can be called "ambidextrous", which is equally proficient with either hand. Being able to use either hand isn't the barometer. Being able to use either hand with equal precision is.

[DJA]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ

[JeffHamm]

I thin we sould not get to carried away with this rain stopping issue. We all have been faced with situations where we have encountered heavy rain showrs and have taken shelter. But do we wait for the rain to completely stop before moving on, or do we move on when it has almost stopped. Me I do the latter and dont get clothes wet to the point where it would be noticeable to anyone.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Hi Trevor,

If you wish to interpret "the rain stopped" as the "rain reached a point where people were willing to start moving about again" that's fine and makes no real difference - a light drizzle won't interfere with the crime scene, a heavy downpour would, and the murder appears to have been committed after the heavy rain period, the end of which corresponds to the Lawende and Levy sighting between 1:33 and 1:35. And the latter of those still leaves a two minute window in which Eddowes and JtR have to get to the crime scene location in order to have the 5 minutes the evidence states were required for the murder and mutilation prior to PC Harvey's patrol (making them the most supported by the evidence, but not conclusively so, hence they are the best working hypothesis). But it doesn't matter if the Church Passage Couple was or was not Eddowes and JtR, the time window applies regardless, and so the St. James Passage is considered as another workable location (but no couple specifically sighted although there were people about in St. James Place, making it the 2nd most probable option as there is tentative support for it) as is the location on Mitre Street (but no mention for that even of "some people", but absence of evidence is not evidence of absense, so it remains as a third, least evidenced and so least probable, location).

- Jeff

[Sam Flynn]

If you wish to interpret "the rain stopped" as the "rain reached a point where people were willing to start moving about again" that's fine and makes no real difference - a light drizzle won't interfere with the crime scene, a heavy downpour would, and the murder appears to have been committed after the heavy rain period

I doubt that Lawende, Levy and Harris would have been put off by a light drizzle, so your conclusion would appear to be correct.

[Wickerman]

I would think the English (people living in England for some time, whether Jews or not), would be used to a little rain. For three men to resist going out in it could mean it was heavy rain, not just a light shower.

[Wickerman]

Hi Wickerman,



I don't know how much shelter their position would afford them (it's a narrow passage, so it may have afforded some protection from the rain after all). From the description of how close they were standing to each other, her with her hand on his chest, etc, it appears the man was, or had been, sheltering the woman, who ever they were,......

- Jeff

I've read a number of traits applied to Jack the Ripper, but chivalry was never one of them.

[JeffHamm]

Hi Sam,

I doubt that Lawende, Levy and Harris would have been put off by a light drizzle, so your conclusion would appear to be correct.

Indeed, I thought I was being clear earlier when suggesting the rain stopped as indicating when the "downpour that prevented people from walking about" stopped, rather than meaning to imply it stopped entirely, or, for completeness, to suggest the stars and moon came out in all their glory.

I note that at the crime scene there is a report of some of the blood having run under her and to her right side of her head, and I recall it being described as more "serum" like somewhere (I think it's indicated on the crime scene diagram, but I can't find a copy of that right now). If that recollection is correct, that would be consistent with there being water on the ground, diluting some of the blood and resulting in it spreading, while the bulk of it pools and clots, indicating it was not disturbed by a heavy rain fall. Again, if my recollection of that detail is accurate, that points to the murder happening after the heavy rain. I've had a search for the diagram (the one made at the crime scene of her position) but can't seem to locate it just now. I think that's the one that points to what I'm talking about though.

- Jeff

[JeffHamm]

Hi Wickerman,

I've read a number of traits applied to Jack the Ripper, but chivalry was never one of them.

Well, if you're trying to lure someone into a location in order to murder them, I think doing what one can to gain their trust might aid in that objective. It's hardly considered chivalrous if it's a ruse.

- Jeff

[FISHY1118]

Thanks wick , probably why most Ripperologist will forever be trying to work out what happen at Mitre square due to starting there investigation with a pair of nobodies who were mistaken for Eddows and JTR.