Can we definitively conclude that Alice McKenzie was not killed by the Ripper?

[Michael W Richards]

I agree Jon, enough Lunar-cy.

As for whether Alice was killed by the same man commonly referred to as The Ripper, I suppose it would depend on how legitimate claims of a Seaside Home attempted Id are. Exactly when Jack the Ripper stopped killing isnt marked on any calendar, its a flexible point in time apparently...related to whom you believe was the last victim. If Alice was a Ripper victim, then one wonders why the illusion was created about an alleged apprehension and institutional installation suggested by Senior investigators? Or did the Seaside Home interview actually take place, and they discovered they didnt have the right man? It is suggested that the witness brought in for that id...likely Schwartz or Lawende, refused to identify the man as the killer. Does that mean he recognized him, or that he wouldnt or couldnt state that for certain?

Lots of variable as always, but the skills used by her killer were suggested as revealing little anatomical knowledge by the same medical authority who said the opposite about Chapmans killer, Dr Phillips. Annie, for me, is the first and stereotypical Jack the Ripper victim. It was her murder that caused the authorities to consider someone with at least rudimentary medical knowledge, and they scoured teaching hospitals and facilities to search for problematic individuals.

Phillips comments about Alice are actually quite interesting..."After careful and long deliberation, I cannot satisfy myself, on purely Anatomical and professional grounds that the perpetrator of all the "Wh Ch. murders" is our man. I am on the contrary impelled to a contrary conclusion in this noting the mode of procedure and the character of the mutilations and judging of motive in connection with the latter. I do not here enter into the comparison of the cases neither do I take into account what I admit may be almost conclusive evidence in favour of the one man theory if all the surrounding circumstances and other evidence are considered, holding it as my duty to report on the P.M. appearances and express an opinion only on Professional grounds, based upon my own observation."

Seems to me he rules out that she was killed by the same Whitechapel Murders killer, though he later states he isnt engaging in comparisons. But dont you have to compare these to arrive at his conclusion?

Bond said about Alices injuries.. "I see in this murder evidence of similar design to the former Whitechapel murders, viz. sudden onslaught on the prostrate woman, the throat skillfully and resolutely cut with subsequent mutilation, each mutilation indicating sexual thoughts and a desire to mutilate the abdomen and sexual organs. I am of opinion that the murder was performed by the same person who committed the former series of Whitechapel murder."

Monro said about Alice, although Anderson had expressed his doubts this was the same man as the one who cause London to cower the previous Fall, ...."I need not say that every effort will be made by the police to discover the murderer, who, I am inclined to believe, is identical with the notorious Jack the Ripper of last year."

Why I posted these is because there is no consensus within the authorities opinions on when the Whitechapel killer stopped killing. Based on that alone, Alice should be considered in my opinion.

[Wickerman]

The Ripper choosing to kill on nights when the moon was not prominent; ergo, a Half Moon, 3 quarter, or Full Moon, may have been the Ripper's subtle way of trying to tell the world that he wasn't a "Lunatic."


RD

Cloud cover on Nov. 8-9th was 100%.

[Wickerman]

Not more astrology nonsense?

[Michael W Richards]

First off Id like to say hi to Tom, its been quite a long time since you and I exchanged ideas directly. I have read some of your published stuff and was impressed with the research done. Im sure we still clash on many points but its not essential that our clashes be bashes, and it is nice to see an old poster.

When I saw that there was so little available light on the 8th for me that does suggest a likely murder time closer to dawn. The cuts were too neat for that murder to be accomplished without some light.

[John Wheat]

The Ripper choosing to kill on nights when the moon was not prominent; ergo, a Half Moon, 3 quarter, or Full Moon, may have been the Ripper's subtle way of trying to tell the world that he wasn't a "Lunatic."


RD

It could just be a coincidence.

[The Rookie Detective]

August 31, 1888

Sept 8, 1888

Sept 30, 1888

Nov 8, 1888

I was a bit surprised that on all the "Ripper kill" dates the moon was 32% visibility or less. Which does make the Chapman murder less likely to have been done using just available moonlight....it was only 7% visibility that night.

The Ripper choosing to kill on nights when the moon was not prominent; ergo, a Half Moon, 3 quarter, or Full Moon, may have been the Ripper's subtle way of trying to tell the world that he wasn't a "Lunatic."


RD

[Fiver]

August 31, 1888

Sept 8, 1888

Sept 30, 1888

Nov 8, 1888

I was a bit surprised that on all the "Ripper kill" dates the moon was 32% visibility or less. Which does make the Chapman murder less likely to have been done using just available moonlight....it was only 7% visibility that night.

Your numbers vary slightly from something that's already been done on Cssebook. It appears the Ripper preferred nights with little moonlight. In Chapman's case, the murder was likely done between dawn and sunrise, which matches with the timing of the three witnesses.

[Tom_Wescott]

That is a very interesting piece of research, Michael.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Michael W Richards]

August 31, 1888

Sept 8, 1888

Sept 30, 1888

Nov 8, 1888

I was a bit surprised that on all the "Ripper kill" dates the moon was 32% visibility or less. Which does make the Chapman murder less likely to have been done using just available moonlight....it was only 7% visibility that night.

[Lewis C]

I made that last post back when I was leaning toward thinking that the early time of death for Chapman was more likely than later. Now that I think that the later time is much more likely, I very much doubt that the amount of moonlight is a reason to doubt that Mackenzie was a Ripper victim. One thing's for sure: SOMEONE killed her with that amount of moonlight. JtR was a risk taker, so why think that it would have been too much moonlight for him, but not too much for someone else.

[The Rookie Detective]

Bump up for this excellent thread



RD

[Lewis C]

If one rejects the possibility that Mackenzie was a Ripper victim because there was too much moonlight when she was killed, then one should also conclude that Chapman was killed much earlier than 5;30 AM. There was a lot more sunlight at 5:30 the day Chapman was killed than there would be moonlight on a night with a full moon.

[Michael W Richards]

There are no "full moon events" among the C5. There aren't even any half-moon events. The Ripper attacks occurred when there was 41%, 2%, 39%, and 27% of the
Moon's visible disk illuminated. That's not a sign of a "lunar loony", that's a sign that the Ripper preferred to attack when there was little or no moonlight.

Sorry, I was obviously aware that some people use the moon phases, like they also use numerology, and days of the week, and coincidental timings to explain these events, I had mistaken that first belief system was actually based on some full moon occurrences. As it seems, its actually based on nothing...like the other ones.

[Fiver]

People have tried to use Moon Phases to explain the gaps over the years, and there are some full moon events. But realistically we aren't looking for a lunar loony.

There are no "full moon events" among the C5. There aren't even any half-moon events. The Ripper attacks occurred when there was 41%, 2%, 39%, and 27% of the
Moon's visible disk illuminated. That's not a sign of a "lunar loony", that's a sign that the Ripper preferred to attack when there was little or no moonlight.

[Michael W Richards]

People have tried to use Moon Phases to explain the gaps over the years, and there are some full moon events. But realistically we aren't looking for a lunar loony.