Can we definitively conclude that Alice McKenzie was not killed by the Ripper?

[The Rookie Detective]

Fair point. But we know Jack was out looking for a victim in November. Are you saying Jack had planned to kill indoors in November?

Its colder in November than September of course, which may reflect killing indoors.

However IMO the relative temperature by itself, wouldn't have played a significant part in the reasons behind killing indoors in November

However there was one overriding theme regarding the weather that DID seem to be a factor across all the killings; the weather itself.

Rainfall in particular.


Weather that would require a coat, umbrella, extra layers etc...

To conceal the murder weapon

Did the killer choose victims on days that the weather was particularly bad?


It could be said that last there would obviously be worse weather in certain months; but what was the weather like when Mckenzie was murdered in July?

Was it raining?



RD

[John Wheat]

It's warmer than October thru April.

Fair point. But we know Jack was out looking for a victim in November. Are you saying Jack had planned to kill indoors in November?

[Tom_Wescott]

First off Id like to say hi to Tom, its been quite a long time since you and I exchanged ideas directly. I have read some of your published stuff and was impressed with the research done. Im sure we still clash on many points but its not essential that our clashes be bashes, and it is nice to see an old poster.

When I saw that there was so little available light on the 8th for me that does suggest a likely murder time closer to dawn. The cuts were too neat for that murder to be accomplished without some light.

Hello to you as well, Michael. Good to see you're still active.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Lewis C]

But late September doesn't tend to be that warm.

It's warmer than October thru April.

[Lewis C]

Prostitutes still have to eat, drink & pay rent, regardless what time of year it is. They are out longer than 'Jack' needs to be.
Other people were out attacking & killing in Winter, so why not 'Jack'?

Different killers have different ways of doing things.

[John Wheat]

The outdoor C5 murders and Tabram's murder all occurred in August or September - warm weather months. It wasn't until about early May that the general temperatures were as warm as in late September. So there was only about a 2 month delay between the return of warm weather and Mackenzie's murder. True, he could have killed indoors during the cold months, but maybe the Kelly murder was a unique opportunity that was unlikely to arise again.

As to why no more murders after Mackenzie, the question of why he stopped is there regardless of who you think the last victim was. Whether the last victim was Kelly or Mackenzie, he probably stopped either because of death, confinement, deterioration of health, he moved away, or he thought he was close to being caught.

But late September doesn't tend to be that warm.

[Wickerman]

The outdoor C5 murders and Tabram's murder all occurred in August or September - warm weather months. It wasn't until about early May that the general temperatures were as warm as in late September. So there was only about a 2 month delay between the return of warm weather and Mackenzie's murder. True, he could have killed indoors during the cold months, but maybe the Kelly murder was a unique opportunity that was unlikely to arise again.

Prostitutes still have to eat, drink & pay rent, regardless what time of year it is. They are out longer than 'Jack' needs to be.
Other people were out attacking & killing in Winter, so why not 'Jack'?

[John Wheat]

imho its a moot point because the ripper wasnt psychotic.

How do you know the Ripper wasn't psychotic?

[Lewis C]

The outdoor C5 murders and Tabram's murder all occurred in August or September - warm weather months. It wasn't until about early May that the general temperatures were as warm as in late September. So there was only about a 2 month delay between the return of warm weather and Mackenzie's murder. True, he could have killed indoors during the cold months, but maybe the Kelly murder was a unique opportunity that was unlikely to arise again.

As to why no more murders after Mackenzie, the question of why he stopped is there regardless of who you think the last victim was. Whether the last victim was Kelly or Mackenzie, he probably stopped either because of death, confinement, deterioration of health, he moved away, or he thought he was close to being caught.

[John Wheat]

The 8 month gap followed by no other victims makes it extremely unlikely Mackenzie was a Ripper victim in my opinion.

[Wickerman]

Sorry, but why is 8 months a bit of a stretch? Absolutely in line with known offenders of serial murders.

For example, there was over 9 months between Peter Sutcliffe's attack on Marcella Claxton and his murder of Irene Richardson. Later there were only two weeks between murdering Jayne MacDonald and his attack on Maureen Long.

There's nothing absolutely definitive, suggestive or evidential about an 8 month period without a known attack.

Are you suggesting Richardson was the last victim?
You are not responding to my point, you cherry-picked one comment, but ignored the other.

The Ripper murdered several victims all close together, then a gap of 8 months, and you think he returned to only kill one last victim?

Peter Sutcliffe attacked Claxton in May '76, then Richardson in Feb. '77, but carried on with more victims; in Apr., then June, then July, Oct., Dec., etc.

You avoided my 2nd point - the Ripper is supposed to have waited 8 months, then murdered McKenzie, but no-one else?
He is supposed to have come out of his hiatus, to just kill one more victim, then stop?
Why?
That needs explaining to justify the 8 month interval.

Tell me how that was matched by the activity of Sutcliffe.

[The Rookie Detective]

Sorry, but why is 8 months a bit of a stretch? Absolutely in line with known offenders of serial murders.

For example, there was over 9 months between Peter Sutcliffe's attack on Marcella Claxton and his murder of Irene Richardson. Later there were only two weeks between murdering Jayne MacDonald and his attack on Maureen Long.

There's nothing absolutely definitive, suggestive or evidential about an 8 month period without a known attack.

That's an excellent point.


8 months is not a long enough time gap to rule out McKenzie being a potetial Ripper victim, on the basis that other serial killers have had a similar duration between kills.

The time gap between Kelly and Mckenzie is generally used as a means to counter anyone who considers that the Ripper may have killed more than just the generic Canonical 5.


RD

[seanr]

Sorry, but why is 8 months a bit of a stretch? Absolutely in line with known offenders of serial murders.

For example, there was over 9 months between Peter Sutcliffe's attack on Marcella Claxton and his murder of Irene Richardson. Later there were only two weeks between murdering Jayne MacDonald and his attack on Maureen Long.

There's nothing absolutely definitive, suggestive or evidential about an 8 month period without a known attack.

[Wickerman]

....

Why I posted these is because there is no consensus within the authorities opinions on when the Whitechapel killer stopped killing. Based on that alone, Alice should be considered in my opinion.

Agreed Michael, it is a matter of choice.
No evidence either way.
It's just that including her, about 8 months after Kelly, is a bit of a stretch.
It tends to require the theorist to account for the 8 month interval, then justify why only one, and not a further string of victims?

[Lewis C]

If Chapman was killed after dawn and since Kelly was killed indoors, to me that means that August 31st and September 30th are the only days of C5 murders when the amount of moonlight might matter.