Is Kosminski still the best suspect we have?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

Is that the recently released "The Escape of Jack the Ripper, by Christine Ward-Agius and Jonathan Hainsworth"? If so, I'd be interested to hear your comments - a new thread perhaps.

I have just acquired "Jack the Ripper - The Facts" by my fellow countryman the late Paul Begg. He quotes a (possibly coloured) description by George Sims:

"a doctor who lived in a suburb about 6 miles from Whitechapel, an who suffered from a horrible form of homocidal mania, a mania which leads the victim of it to look upon women of a certain class with frenzied hatred. The doctor had been an inmate of a lunatic asylum for some time, and had been liberated and regained his complete freedom.".

It continues on about the Kelly murder. I haven't heard any suggestion that Druitt had been an inmate of an asylum, but I'm reading that this is one of the subjects addressed in the new book. Can you keep us informed please?

Cheers, George

Hi George,

The book is very good IMO but many struggle to accept the basic premise that by the Edwardian era the identity of the ripper was pretty much known to have been an English gentleman that committed suicide the Thames after the Kelly murder. MacNaghten (with the help of his friend the writer George Sims) decided on a campaign of misinformation to hide the killers true identity to protect the family who were not only well-to-do but who were related by marriage to one of MacNaghten’s best friend’s Colonel Sir Vivian Majendie. Then after the war when those looking into the case tried to find the killer in the records they couldn’t because of the misinformation which led them to believe that the story of the killer committing suicide was just a myth.

There’s no concrete evidence that Druitt was in an asylum but Roger Palmer (poster RJPalmer) discovered a newspaper article in The Philadelphia Times of January 1889 telling of a young Englishman being admitted to a private asylum in France where he was accompanied by two men. His ‘friend’, a lawyer, (Monty’s brother was a solicitor) and his cousin, a priest (Monty’s cousin was the Reverend Charles Druitt.) The headline read: “WHITECHAPEL FIENDS. A Most Remarkable Story That Comes From Paris. POSSIBLY THIS IS A CLUE. One of the Supposed Murderers, Sent to an Asylum Tells Much That is Startling.

obviously I wouldn’t suggest that this is a case of ‘game over’ but it’s, at the very least, intriguing. In 1907 George Sims writes “ [The chief suspect] was a well-dressed….Doctor [who] had been an inmate of a lunatic asylum.” He then goes on to mention him committing suicide in the Thames.

Another book well worth getting George is David Anderson’s Blood Harvest. He also believes Druitt to have been guilty but without the MacNaghten/Sims cover up angle.

[GBinOz]

Do you mean this one:

https://www.ridemedia.com.au/features/remembering-paul-begg-1966-2020-bike-rider-innovator-adventurer-jester-mate/

The Baron

Humble apologies to all. I thought I deleted the post with the details. The above link popped up when I was googling for Paul Begg's books.

Cheers, George

[Kattrup]

Wrong on two counts. Not an Aussie and not the Late. Apologies to all.

Cheers, George

Ah, I see. Thank you

[The Baron]

Hi Kattrup,

Regrettably not. Paul passed on 1 December 2020 after a long battle with cancer at the age of 53. He will be sorely missed. R.I.P.

Cheers, George

Do you mean this one:

https://www.ridemedia.com.au/features/remembering-paul-begg-1966-2020-bike-rider-innovator-adventurer-jester-mate/

The Baron

[GBinOz]

I do hope that's a misunderstanding?

Wrong on two counts. Not an Aussie and not the Late. Apologies to all.

Cheers, George

[Kattrup]

my fellow countryman the late Paul Begg.

I do hope that's a misunderstanding?

[GBinOz]

Kosminski, a Polish Jew....This man in appearance strongly resembled the individual seen by the City PC near Mitre Square."

RP

Is there currently available a physical description of Kosminski, or Druitt?

Cheers, George

[GBinOz]

I own and have read every book on Druitt unlike you. I’m even reading Jon Hainsworth’s updated book at the moment.

Hi Herlock,

Is that the recently released "The Escape of Jack the Ripper, by Christine Ward-Agius and Jonathan Hainsworth"? If so, I'd be interested to hear your comments - a new thread perhaps.

I have just acquired "Jack the Ripper - The Facts" by my fellow countryman the late Paul Begg. He quotes a (possibly coloured) description by George Sims:

"a doctor who lived in a suburb about 6 miles from Whitechapel, an who suffered from a horrible form of homocidal mania, a mania which leads the victim of it to look upon women of a certain class with frenzied hatred. The doctor had been an inmate of a lunatic asylum for some time, and had been liberated and regained his complete freedom.".

It continues on about the Kelly murder. I haven't heard any suggestion that Druitt had been an inmate of an asylum, but I'm reading that this is one of the subjects addressed in the new book. Can you keep us informed please?

Cheers, George

[The Baron]

We all know that if we are to align Swanson's claim with the asylum records, the only time the suspect was "returned to his brothers house" was after a 4 day incarceration at the Mile End/Stepney Workhouse- July 12 - 15, 1889.
Yet the Seaside Home at Hove only opened the next year in March 1890.
So, is this another case of faulty recollection by Swanson?

Wrong.

Actually it is a case of faulty recollection by yourself.


Kosminski was admitted to Mile End Old Town Workhouse on 12 July 1890, three days later 15 July 1890 he was discharged into the care of his brother[-in-law], Wolf’s care.


12-15 July 1890


The Seaside Home at Hove was already open since March 1890


It helps when you first get your basic information right.



The Baron

[Herlock Sholmes]

It’s very quiet

[Herlock Sholmes]

It will be interesting to see how you wriggle on this one Baron?

1st you accuse Wick of claiming that Druitt was put in an asylum by his brother when this was proposed by David Anderson in his excellent book Blood Harvest - another book that you haven’t read. PROVABLY WRONG

2nd you accuse Wick of claiming that Druitt had been murdered when this was suggested by Howell’s and Skinner - in another book that you probably won’t have read. PROVABLY WRONG.

3rd you claim the Seaside Identification as proof of Kosminski’s guilt despite the fact that neither the Seaside Home or the supposed witness has been identified. And despite that fact that, even if identification did occur (and I’m not dismissing it), we have to accept the possibility of the witness being honestly mistaken. PROVABLE DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE.

4th you interpreted Wick’s post to me as an insult when it very obviously wasn’t. PROVABLY WRONG.

5th you ignore the fact that, as per the Doctors evidence, Kosminski’s mental deterioration didn’t begin until 1890 and that he wasn’t even considered to be dangerous when he was incarcerated in 1891. In fact the only example of violence is from one minor family incident. PROVABLY IGNORING DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE.

6th in a previous post you claimed that Cutbush was a better suspect than Kosminski, Druitt and Ostrog (and at no time did you qualify that by mentioning the Seaside Identification (this was very obviously a last minute piece of wriggling by yourself which didn’t work) PROVABLY UNWILLING TO BE HONEST AND ADMIT WHAT YOU PROVABLY SAID.

7th you try to claim that Alice Mackenzie was definitely a ripper victim when anyone that knows anything about this subject knows that this murder divides opinion. PROOF OF YOUR UTTER DESPERATION TO TRY AND ELIMINATE DRUITT.

8th you repeatedly claim that I dismiss Mackenzie as a victim just to maintain Druitt’s suspect status despite the fact that I’ve stated numerous times that Mackenzie might have been a victim and that we just don’t know. PROOF THAT YOU WILL PROPOSE A LIE TO TRY AND DISCREDIT ANOTHER POSTER JUST TO TRY AND EMPHASISE YOUR POINT.

9th you’ve labelled Wickerman a Druittist when he’s not, simply because you can’t understand the concept of someone approaching the subject with an open mind. ANOTHER LIE THAT YOU KEEP REPEATING.

10th you claimed that MacNaghten’s daughter didn’t believe him when this is simply your biased interpretation of something that she said. MORE BIAS FROM YOU.

11th you haven’t explained where you got the ideas that MacNaghten took photographs and was in the habit of going to the Press. BECAUSE THEY’RE NOT TRUE OF COURSE.


Its not difficult to see why you’ve got so much wrong on this thread and it’s very simple and obvious. It’s bias. You’ve previously set out with the determined obsession of dismissing/eliminating Druitt. This is more than likely due to your obsession with me. I’ve lost count of how many times you’ve been long absent from the boards and then I, or someone else, mentions Druitt and ‘hey presto’ The Baron re-appears. Even when I say that I’m not saying for certain that he was the ripper you ignore it. When I say that I don’t entirely dismiss the possibility of Mackenzie as a victim, you ignore it. You are entirely blinkered and it makes you post nonsense. Even when I hadn’t posted for months and posters were saying that they were glad that I was ok your first comment was about Druitt!

Now Baron, as things are getting uncomfortable on here for you and you are doing your usual trick of ignoring inconvenient points and questions that you can’t answer, I’m guessing it’s getting close to the time when you do your usual trick. When the going gets tough you usually disappear to until sometime in the future when I post the magic word ‘Druitt’ and then you’ll re-appear to post the same old collection of lies and nonsense.

[Wickerman]

Ever had one of those days.....
A couple of lines were missing out of that last post, I'll insert them in bold.

Interesting fact, when admitted for the second time to the Mile End Workhouse in 1891 and certified insane, some notes on the form read:
Age at first attack: 25 years.
Duration of existing attack: 6 months (referring back to July 1890)

The doctor also indicated that Kozminski was not epileptic, not suicidal, and, not dangerous to others.

Which tells us Kozminski was not suffering this illness in 1888, as the "muzzled dog" incident tends to testify in 1889.

[Wickerman]

You can try to discredit this identification as you wish, but you won't be able to remove it away, you can't, whatever you do, you will fail

It is questioned, and until a suitable location is identified, it always will be. And not just by anti-Kozminski'ists, by impartial researchers. We all want to know where on earth Swanson had in mind. You should too because the one at Hove didn't exist in 1889.

And who is the desperate one here?! I didn't claim that Druitt's family looked him away in a private asylum to make him fit a press report, you claimed this with zero evidence that Monty was ever committed to any asylum, let alone a private one.

Credit is not mine. I think it was David Anderson who proposed it in his book.

I didn't claim that Druitt's own brother killed him, you tried your luck pushing such a twisted theory in order to make the suicide note a hoax to fit again the press report.

Once again, I think it was Skinner & Howells who proposed that theory. Brother William did lie at the inquest, and we do not have the note to test the handwriting. Their proposal would solve a few outstanding questions.

I didn't claim that Kosminski's family couldn't afford a private asylum, you did this again to twist everything to make Druitt a better fit to the press report.

I never said you did, I said his brother took him to a local workhouse, as opposed to a private asylum.
You don't put a family member in a workhouse unless you are totally out of options.

Interesting fact, when admitted for the second time to the Mile End Workhouse in 1891 and certified insane, some notes on the form read:
Age at first attack: 25 years.
Duration of existing attack: 6 months (referring back to July 1890)
Which tells us Kozminski was not suffering this illness in 1888, as the "muzzled dog" incident tends to testify in 1889.

I didn't claim that Rob House removed sentences from the report to make it better fit to his suspect, you claimed this with zero convincing argument, and except smoke and mirrors, you didn't provided any good point to justifies such a claim.

Authors don't make those kind of mistakes. I managed to include the last line, it was no trouble at all. Whether the fact Rob wrote that the family couldn't afford a private asylum had something to do with it I can't say.

[Herlock Sholmes]

And look at post #931. Well waddya know? I was right again.

Are you going to apologise? Of course not.

NO INTEGRITY OR HONESTY

[Herlock Sholmes]

Gotcha




The Baron

You can’t understand the simplest of things can you?