Is Kosminski still the best suspect we have?

[Darryl Kenyon]

One thing has just struck me. It is generally assumed that Macnaghten didn't include Martha with his C5 because he saw an escalation in the ferocity of the murders before the killers mind gave way. But I am just wondering if he didn't include Martha because he knew Druitt couldn't have killed her. So he went for the soldier theory.
Just a thought.
Regards Darryl

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

All arguments aside regarding the legitimacy of Tabram as a JtR victim, can I ask you to draw on your knowledge of the Druitt case to either confirm or deny the possibilty of the Bournemouth Cricket Week or the school holidays spent in Dorset by Druitt precluding him from being in London on 7 August 1888? I'm not taking sides here, just asking for information from a higher source.

Another question for you. In your studies of Druitt, did you find any suggestion that he may have been a Free Mason?

Cheers, George

Certainly no suggestion of Freemasonry George and I think that it’s been pretty much accepted that Druitt couldn’t have killed Tabram.

[GBinOz]

"Another murder occasionally included among the Ripper cases is that of Martha Tabram, who was viciously stabbed to death on 7 August 1888. Her death coincided with the middle of Bournemouth Cricket Week, 4–11 August, in which Druitt was heavily involved, and was during the school holidays which Druitt spent in Dorset.
The Baron

Hi Herlock,

All arguments aside regarding the legitimacy of Tabram as a JtR victim, can I ask you to draw on your knowledge of the Druitt case to either confirm or deny the possibilty of the Bournemouth Cricket Week or the school holidays spent in Dorset by Druitt precluding him from being in London on 7 August 1888? I'm not taking sides here, just asking for information from a higher source.

Another question for you. In your studies of Druitt, did you find any suggestion that he may have been a Free Mason?

Cheers, George

[Herlock Sholmes]

do we actually know how many runs Druitt scored the day after the murder..? The more runs, the less the likelyhood that he spent the night before running around East London with bloody hands. Unless he managed to get some kip on the train but given how shaky and noisy those old trains were, I rather doubt it.....

If Druitt was a serial killer can we expect him to act in the same way that a normal person would? How do we know how much sleep he required as different people require different amounts? Can we say for anything like certain that he couldn’t have slept on the train?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

These are the wisest words you have spoken. I have observed that on this forum there are those who:

1. Are rusted on to their opinions, will not change, regardless of evidence presented, and resort to endless repitition to make their points.

2. Have no researched opinions but are happy to heckle from the sidelines anyone that does.

3. Are here for the courteous exchange of ideas without resort to personal attacks or ridicule of opinions.

I need to add a comment here to Herlock, that while my little rant is based on your comment, it is in no way directed at you.

Cheers, George

No problem George.

[Svensson]

Hi Svensson,

Although I favour Druitt of the named suspects I certainly wouldn’t say that he was definitely the man. Kosminski definitely needs to be considered and further info could be out there somewhere.

do we actually know how many runs Druitt scored the day after the murder..? The more runs, the less the likelyhood that he spent the night before running around East London with bloody hands. Unless he managed to get some kip on the train but given how shaky and noisy those old trains were, I rather doubt it.....

[GBinOz]

What I mean though is that there’s no solid evidence against anyone.

Hi Herlock,

These are the wisest words you have spoken. I have observed that on this forum there are those who:

1. Are rusted on to their opinions, will not change, regardless of evidence presented, and resort to endless repitition to make their points.

2. Have no researched opinions but are happy to heckle from the sidelines anyone that does.

3. Are here for the courteous exchange of ideas without resort to personal attacks or ridicule of opinions.

I need to add a comment here to Herlock, that while my little rant is based on your comment, it is in no way directed at you.

Cheers, George

[Herlock Sholmes]

I realise that I'm about 6 years late to this thread but yes, Kosminski is about the least poor on a rather poor list of suspects we have in the 21st century. Any further insights into his viability could only really come from either contemporary police records (in so far as some previously undiscovered ones still exist) or from Leavesden Asylum records which MAY still exist in the private collections of the descendants of some former staff from '94-'19.

Apart from that, I am quite intrigued by the Letchmere/Cross situation but given that he was no suspect at the time and seems to have subsequently disappeared from history, the chances of any records that would help in investigating him are somewhere in the region of "absolutely nothing". So for this reason, Kosminski remains about the only person who could be considered a viable suspect.

Cheers.

Hi Svensson,

Although I favour Druitt of the named suspects I certainly wouldn’t say that he was definitely the man. Kosminski definitely needs to be considered and further info could be out there somewhere.

[Svensson]

I realise that I'm about 6 years late to this thread but yes, Kosminski is about the least poor on a rather poor list of suspects we have in the 21st century. Any further insights into his viability could only really come from either contemporary police records (in so far as some previously undiscovered ones still exist) or from Leavesden Asylum records which MAY still exist in the private collections of the descendants of some former staff from '94-'19.

Apart from that, I am quite intrigued by the Letchmere/Cross situation but given that he was no suspect at the time and seems to have subsequently disappeared from history, the chances of any records that would help in investigating him are somewhere in the region of "absolutely nothing". So for this reason, Kosminski remains about the only person who could be considered a viable suspect.

Cheers.

[Herlock Sholmes]

.... after he fried and ate tother piece of Kidne he took from one women .. it was very nise

Tother half he prasarved and put it in his pocket while he was defending his client in a court





The Baron

You can read the part where it says the “on the day after….” can’t you?

It means the next day.

They occurred on different days.

Not at the same time.

Murder….train journey….Court.

Very simple stuff Baron. You’re wasting your time on this (and everyone else’s for that matter)

[The Baron]

and the day after the murders of Stride and Eddowes, he was in the West Country defending a client in a court case

.... after he fried and ate tother piece of Kidne he took from one women .. it was very nise

Tother half he prasarved and put it in his pocket while he was defending his client in a court





The Baron

[Herlock Sholmes]

It’s pointless for you to keep resorting to this desperation. Tabram and Mackenzie were not definite ripper victims. They might have been; they might not have been. So the very best that you can say is “if either of them were proven to have been victims then Druitt couldn’t have been the ripper.”

If….

And so as you’ve had explained to you a hundred times these 2 cannot be used to eliminate Druitt. Anyone can of course say “I’m convinced that Mackenzie was a victim and so I eliminate Druitt on that basis,” because that’s an opinion. It cannot be stated as a fact though.

None of Druitt’s cricket playing eliminates him much as you’d like it to.

[The Baron]

"Another murder occasionally included among the Ripper cases is that of Martha Tabram, who was viciously stabbed to death on 7 August 1888. Her death coincided with the middle of Bournemouth Cricket Week, 4–11 August, in which Druitt was heavily involved, and was during the school holidays which Druitt spent in Dorset. On 1 September, the day after the murder of Nichols, Druitt was in Dorset playing cricket. On the day of Chapman's murder, he played cricket in Blackheath, and the day after the murders of Stride and Eddowes, he was in the West Country defending a client in a court case."

On the day of Mckenzie's murder, Druitt was 6 feet under the ground.




The Baron

[Herlock Sholmes]

Now then Herlock, asking for evidence is considered a reasonable thing to do. Don't deny it my friend, I've seen you ask it of others. .........just a friendly bagging.

True enough George What I mean though is that there’s no solid evidence against anyone. With Druitt we have things like Henry Farquharson a West of England MP. A story appeared in the Bristol Times on Feb 11th 1891 saying that an MP (unnamed at the time) was saying that he knew who Jack the Ripper was. He was the son of a surgeon who committed suicide. Druitt was the son of a surgeon who committed suicide and was from Dorset. This is before the MM of course.

We also have a possible link to the Crawford letter with a letter written by Druitt’s aunt where she tells her daughter that she’s visited Cavendish Square (where Crawford lived) and that she felt that she’d never be free of this ‘encumbrance.’ We can’t say what this ‘encumbrance’ was of course but JH calls the letter ‘angst-filled’ so it appears to have been a serious problem. It could have been unrelated to Monty of course but it’s still an intriguing possibility.

Then there’s the minutes of the 21st December meeting of the Blackheath Club where, in his absence, Monty was removed as Honorary Treasurer and Secretary because he’d ‘gone abroad.’ This might of course be connected to the Blackheath School where Druitt had got into some serious trouble, and so ‘gone abroad’ was a face saver but we don’t know what that trouble was? Of course we can’t read too much into this but again it’s intriguing and at least raises plausible possibilities.

I think it might have been Dan Farson who said that it was Druitt’s unlikeliness as a suspect which makes him interesting and I agree. If MacNaghten was simply plucking 3 names out of thin air to throw under the wheels of the bus as ‘likelier suspects than Cutbush,’ why the hell would he choose Druitt of all people? He would have had his choice of any number of nonentities and ne’er do well’s so why name, in this rigorously class conscious society, a man of Druitt’s background? A man with no history of violence or criminality. A man who was related by marriage to one of his best friends. Because he died after Kelly? What about Mackenzie who was believed to have been a victim by his friend and mentor Munro and others? The argument that he was chosen purely because of when he died just doesn’t hold water. MacNaghten felt that he had solid reasons for believing Druitt guilty. Whether those reasons were justified we have no way of knowing.

[GBinOz]

Mention of Druitt as a suspect tends to get some gnashing their teeth, wailing and rending their garments but he’s the most interesting suspect for me. There’s a lot going on in any full reading of events surrounding Druitt. No ‘evidence’ of guilt of course which is what those that dismiss him usually say but what ‘evidence’ is there against anyone? There’s lots of stuff to keep someone with an open mind interested.

Now then Herlock, asking for evidence is considered a reasonable thing to do. Don't deny it my friend, I've seen you ask it of others. .........just a friendly bagging.