Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson?

[Sam Flynn]

I have a similar one for carrying spanners, but they're equally useful for knives....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07HT1FC...a-547782607414

Indeed. That one even has a kind of strap

[Wickerman]

Up until Kelly we have a JtR that is blending in well. Yet with Kelly we see a man dressed up for something.

We also have a killer who has changed his M.O., allowing himself to be seen face to face by a witness in the company of his next victim.
This is a problem in my view.

To this extent, a man dressed as he was, as dangerous as he was, would have no problem walking Whitechapel at night. He wasn't fearing running into someone with a knife. He was the fear, with the knife.

Generally, killers who prey on the vulnerable, in this case drunken women, are not known to be so brave when confronted with men.

I doubt Astrachan was the killer anyway. I think he was there because this was his neighborhood. He was not afraid because he was part of the criminal element.

On another tack.....Hutchinson said he thought he saw him in the Petticoat Lane (the market), so maybe Astrachan was a confidence trickster or petty thief, just like Isaacs.
The Petticoat Lane market did include Goulston Street (the Graffiti?). I have not heard anyone else mention this - coincidence?

[Joshua Rogan]

My father had a tool kit made from oilskin. It was a roll with strings around the middle to tie up to hold it from unrolling. When it was unrolled there were pouches inside for tools like drill bits & small files, anything long & thin.
Though I can't imagine why Astrachan would be carrying a rolled up toolkit, unless he was a dentist

I have a similar one for carrying spanners, but they're equally useful for knives....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07HT1FC2Y/ref=asc_df_B07HT1FC2Y57261664/?tag=googshopuk-21&creative=22146&creativeASIN=B07HT1FC2Y&linkCode=df0&hvadid=305185307486&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12757790282864312943&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045736&hvtargid=pla-547782607414

[Wickerman]

These pewter beer cans were taken home from the pub and then left out on the doorstep. In the morning, the publican or the publican's boy would make the rounds and pick them up, like so many empty milk bottles. An account of this procedure was alluded to during a murder case in Richmond in 1879 that involved the landlord of the Rising Sun P.H. among other sources.

Yes but I can't imagine how the publican's 'boy' would know where Blotchy was headed that night.

[Wickerman]

Alcohol can slow the digestion of food considerably and since Mary was likely very drunk and the fact that complex carbohydrates take longer to digest, [potatoes] are we even sure when she ate the meal?

No, we are not sure.
Dr Bond gave his estimate but it is highly debatable.

[Wickerman]

I don't recall Hutchinson mentioning the bullseye on the back of Mr. Astrakhan's long dark coat.

Mr. A. was a mugger's wet dream.

Aye, but criminals don't normally target their own kind.

[Wickerman]

Hi Wick, I take your point but people who knew astracan would probably know he dressed like that or at least he had some of that attire. He could have bought the whole outfit recently I suppose but unlikely.
A man living in or around Thrawl st would have had to have a pretty good job to buy that outfit all at once, gold chain and all
Also, Description age about 34 or 35. height 5ft6 complexion pale, dark eyes and eye lashes slight moustache, curled up each end, and hair dark Jewish appearance. Again I would suppose a few of the Jewish population looked like that but putting it with his clothing etc would narrow the field considerably.

What if he was a petty thief, a poser, who stole all he had and chose to like 'the man'?
He would be someone like Joseph Isaacs, who constantly changed his dress to look like someone he wasn't, and he lived off Dorset Street.

[Batman]

Where, and how, is our shabby-genteel killer going to get hold of a gold watch, silver tiepin and an astrakhan coat? Alternatively, was he a comfortably-off master of disguise who initially dressed down, but wore his normal kit only for his final murder?

Our subject likely does not stay as a guest in a doss house, but does live in the hot zone. He likely has his own abode. Whether he lives alone or not, he can come and go to commit these crimes without worrying about things at home.

Items like these can be stolen, borrowed, heirlooms, bought, gifted, who knows? Annie Chapman likely had the rings from her fingers removed by her killer. I have no problem with the idea of JtR being a thief, be he well off or not.

JtR wasn't an unfortunate. He targetted them though.

I doubt JtR had to walk more than 10 minutes to get to Kelly and back home again.

[Wickerman]

Despite the name, oilcloth wasn't oily - a fabric was typically impregnated with linseed oil in order to make it waterproof, flexible and durable. It was the nearest thing to plastic or faux leather available at the time. If you had a case or bag made of oilcloth, you surely wouldn't spoil it by carrying two stinky portions of cod and chips around in it. You might use it to keep a set of knives clean and dry, however.

Right, over here they call it waxed cotton, but it's oilskin/oilcloth, just the same. I wear an oilskin jacket for work, its waterproof and durable. No transfer of oil its not like its wet as some might imply.

My father had a tool kit made from oilskin. It was a roll with strings around the middle to tie up to hold it from unrolling. When it was unrolled there were pouches inside for tools like drill bits & small files, anything long & thin.
Though I can't imagine why Astrachan would be carrying a rolled up toolkit, unless he was a dentist

[Sam Flynn]

A logical order of events would be that Lawende's sailor description hit home and therefore clerk, shabby and sailor are no longer good ideas for JtR. Obviously, the alternative is to go in the other direction. Not a clerk, not shabby and not a sailor.

Where, and how, is our shabby-genteel killer going to get hold of a gold watch, silver tiepin and an astrakhan coat? Alternatively, was he a comfortably-off master of disguise who initially dressed down, but wore his normal kit only for his final murder?

[Batman]

A logical order of events would be that Lawende's sailor description hit home and therefore clerk, shabby and sailor are no longer good ideas for JtR. Obviously, the alternative is to go in the other direction. Not a clerk, not shabby and not a sailor.

So in this respect, Hutchinson comes across as being more in kilter with a hypothesis that JtR changed up his appearance because of witness description.

This means the appearance seen by Hutchinson is not JtR's 'regular' appearance.

Up until Kelly we have a JtR that is blending in well. Yet with Kelly we see a man dressed up for something.

JtR obviously considered himself invincible. The public couldn't stop him. The police couldn't stop him. He wanted to demonstrate he had that power over everybody. Impulses he likely acted on while seeking a need to basically get more violent postmortem with his targets.

To this extent, a man dressed as he was, as dangerous as he was, would have no problem walking Whitechapel at night. He wasn't fearing running into someone with a knife. He was the fear, with the knife.

[rjpalmer]

These pewter beer cans were taken home from the pub and then left out on the doorstep. In the morning, the publican or the publican's boy would make the rounds and pick them up, like so many empty milk bottles. An account of this procedure was alluded to during a murder case in Richmond in 1879 that involved the landlord of the Rising Sun P.H. among other sources.

[Simon Wood]

I don't recall Hutchinson mentioning the bullseye on the back of Mr. Astrakhan's long dark coat.

Mr. A. was a mugger's wet dream.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Alcohol can slow the digestion of food considerably and since Mary was likely very drunk and the fact that complex carbohydrates take longer to digest, [potatoes] are we even sure when she ate the meal?

[Darryl Kenyon]

Be honest, if that was you would you go out again dressed like that?
There was likely a noticeable lack of Jewish men wearing Astrachan coats for the next few weeks.

Hi Wick, I take your point but people who knew astracan would probably know he dressed like that or at least he had some of that attire. He could have bought the whole outfit recently I suppose but unlikely.
A man living in or around Thrawl st would have had to have a pretty good job to buy that outfit all at once, gold chain and all
Also, Description age about 34 or 35. height 5ft6 complexion pale, dark eyes and eye lashes slight moustache, curled up each end, and hair dark Jewish appearance. Again I would suppose a few of the Jewish population looked like that but putting it with his clothing etc would narrow the field considerably.