Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson?

[Batman]

Who's saying he put the food in the can? He might have, but nobody's mandating that possibility. Alternatively, there was nothing stopping Mr Blotchy from nipping out to get food for them both after they reached Miller's Court, nor from buying it for Mary just before they arrived. Maybe they'd had a few drinks in a pub earlier that evening, and buying some food to eat on the way home would seem a plausible thing to do.

You see here, the beer can might not hold beer. You are allowing for food to be in it. A beer can carrying food.

Notice I have not objected to this point.

Despite the name, oilcloth wasn't oily - a fabric was typically impregnated with linseed oil in order to make it waterproof, flexible and durable. It was the nearest thing to plastic or faux leather available at the time. If you had a case or bag made of oilcloth, you surely wouldn't spoil it by carrying two stinky portions of cod and chips around in it. You might use it to keep a set of knives clean and dry, however.

Oilcloth has a sheen to it. So does oily paper.

There is no point to parceling knives. That makes no sense if you are JtR. None at all.

Hutchinson just described a parcel.

Adding knives to it is subjective input.

So Fish n Chips in a beer pot, no problem apparently.

Fish n Chips wrapped in oily paper/cloth, big problem, apparently.

As I said, I suspect it wasn't cloth at all but greasy paper from fish and potatoes.

[Sam Flynn]

Fish and chips in a beer can - no problem acceptable.

Who's saying he put the food in the can? He might have, but nobody's mandating that possibility. Alternatively, there was nothing stopping Mr Blotchy from nipping out to get food for them both after they reached Miller's Court, nor from buying it for Mary just before they arrived. Maybe they'd had a few drinks in a pub earlier that evening, and buying some food to eat on the way home would seem a plausible thing to do.

Fish and chips wrapped in an oily parcel - heresy!

Despite the name, oilcloth wasn't oily - a fabric was typically impregnated with linseed oil in order to make it waterproof, flexible and durable. It was the nearest thing to plastic or faux leather available at the time. If you had a case or bag made of oilcloth, you surely wouldn't spoil it by carrying two stinky portions of cod and chips around in it. You might use it to keep a set of knives clean and dry, however.

[Wickerman]

If astracan was carrying a fish and potato supper with him, he must have bought it before he met Mary.
That means it must have been for his own consumption. Following on from that and he did buy the meal somewhere near or on Thrawl St it probably means that he lived nearby. Would you walk miles for your supper if Chandlers shops were open that late?
So it means he was local.
Yet astracan was not found despite Hutchinson's very detailed description of him.
I would expect him to have been, even if he was just eliminated from police enquires and Dew making mention of it. But no the man was never traced even if he had done a bunk.
No trace, probably no suspect.

Be honest, if that was you would you go out again dressed like that?
There was likely a noticeable lack of Jewish men wearing Astrachan coats for the next few weeks.

[Wickerman]

Who fried the fish at that time in the morning?

Let's not lose sight of the stupidity we are challenging.

I wasn't responding to the question, "where did she get her fish n chips?'. I don't think for a minute McCarthy served up fish & chips, but other establishments better equipped to do so did, and eateries were open late into the morning.
Not forgetting Whitechapel High Street was packed with hot & cold food stalls till all hours of the night.

Remember, Dr Bond only said "fish & potatoes", so her meal could just as easily have been boiled fish & a baked potato.

[Batman]

she probably got the fish and potatoes from blotchy.

hutch may have gotten bad potatoes, like scrooge, causing his vision of Aman.

Fish and chips in a beer can - no problem acceptable.

Fish and chips wrapped in an oily parcel - heresy!

[Abby Normal]

That's the impression you get from reading it. He doesn't say he suspects knives in there in his original statement.

If he wanted to imply knives, why not a medical bag for extra drama? Why not copy what others had said in the press about men carrying bags?

Instead, we get a late night parcel tied up and MJK with fish and potatoes not yet fully digested in her stomach contents and intestines.

Obviously, there are people here who get that nobody is keeping fish and chips on ice at home and that there are no reports for recent cooking in MJKs room.

MJK had fish and potatoes.

Someone likely brought that home. Maybe it was her... yet where are witnesses to this?

Nowhere to our knowledge.

Is it a stretch to think JtR brought her the food?

I don't think so.

May Hutchinson have spotted a packaged supper?

Maybe he did and that's something those who reject Hutchinson can't have happen...

... yet even then are still having to explain the fish and potato evidence.

she probably got the fish and potatoes from blotchy.

hutch may have gotten bad potatoes, like scrooge, causing his vision of Aman.

[Batman]

obviously hutch wanted to give the impression mr Aman was carrying knives in it.

That's the impression you get from reading it. He doesn't say he suspects knives in there in his original statement.

If he wanted to imply knives, why not a medical bag for extra drama? Why not copy what others had said in the press about men carrying bags?

Instead, we get a late night parcel tied up and MJK with fish and potatoes not yet fully digested in her stomach contents and intestines.

Obviously, there are people here who get that nobody is keeping fish and chips on ice at home and that there are no reports for recent cooking in MJKs room.

MJK had fish and potatoes.

Someone likely brought that home. Maybe it was her... yet where are witnesses to this?

Nowhere to our knowledge.

Is it a stretch to think JtR brought her the food?

I don't think so.

May Hutchinson have spotted a packaged supper?

Maybe he did and that's something those who reject Hutchinson can't have happen...

... yet even then are still having to explain the fish and potato evidence.

[Jon Guy]

Scenes in History that Never Happened, #83:

"Where are you going, darling?"

"I'm off to buy some rancid fried food from a poor man's chandler's shop in Thrawl Street. Don't worry, I've got my chip-strap ready this time."

"Well don't forget your gold watch chain, silver tiepin and astrakhan coat. You'd better take this sheet of oilcloth, too, in case they've run out of paper."

Funny
Pythonesque even ..

[Abby Normal]

are we really debating if Aman had fish and chips in his parcel thingy? lol

obviously hutch wanted to give the impression mr Aman was carrying knives in it.

[Batman]

You demonstrated that some people took something. But some people is not everyone and something isn't "anything".

What was demonstrated is that your claim 'you don't take anything' is contradicted by locals taking something. It can be anything to contradict that. In this instance, it's a plate.

What this does is question the idea that you were able to get your meal wrapped up as nicely as you have had it in modern times. If that were the case then there would be no need for plates. Obviously, the conclusion here is that plates were preferable to whatever they were giving food out in. Meaning can't be as good as you had it.

If you want to buy fish and chips (dressed in your astrakhan coat with gold watch and horseshoe tiepin, naturally) you might take a plate.

Not if you were coming back from a club/pub for example. You don't bring your plates with you then.

or possibly your own paper (why, I don't know),

Doubtful, but a strap is easy to have on you if you plan to go home with a hot bundle of food in paper.

but you don't take a sheet of oilcloth and,

As you said yourself they may have been using any old sheet/paper and this I don't disagree with. However look at what you are saying. That an oily parcel can't be mistaken for oilcloth. Furthermore, oilcloth is primarily to prevent leakage/absorbing moisture. Bread cloth for sandwiches is another cloth used to wrap food back then.

regardless of what the food is wrapped in, you don't secure it with a strap. The idea is ridiculous.

Demonstrably incorrect. Across the European continent, there are countless examples of modern strap boxes used to carry lunches. Before the advent of plastics, this would have been makeshift.

Also cold foods such as deserts can also be wrapped and carried this way.

No barrier at all.

[Sam Flynn]

You don't take anything?

We already demonstrated that they did.

You demonstrated that some people took something. But some people is not everyone and something isn't "anything".

If you want to buy fish and chips (dressed in your astrakhan coat with gold watch and horseshoe tiepin, naturally) you might take a plate, or possibly your own paper (why, I don't know), but you don't take a sheet of oilcloth and, regardless of what the food is wrapped in, you don't secure it with a strap. The idea is ridiculous.

That's what is being argued against and obviously, there are NO BARRIERS what-so-ever to this happening.

Common sense is a pretty good barrier, in my experience.

Why can't you accept that the brainwave you had that Mr Astrakhan's taking a sheet of oilcloth and a strap to buy fish and chips is vastly unlikely, instead of banging on and on and on about it?

[Batman]

You don't take oilcloth and a strap to wrap fish and chips. In fact, you don't take anything; the chandler (or chippie owner) wraps it for you, and has a supply of paper - newspaper or otherwise - for this very purpose.

Give it up. It's a silly idea.

You don't take anything?

We already demonstrated that they did.

PC Walter Andrews is evidence people brought things to collect their hot food in/on.

Inquest: Alice Mackenzie
[Coroner] Had you seen any one? - I had not. There was not a soul in the alley that I saw. After I saw the body lying on the pavement I heard a footstep coming from Old Castle-place, and I saw a young man, named Isaac Lewis Jacobs. I said, "Where are you going?" He said, "I am going to Wentworth-street to fetch something for my supper." At the time he was carrying a plate in his hand. Jacobs came back with me and stayed there until the sergeant arrived.

Apparently, if some people doubt Hutchinson existed, that means that take away parcels at night, can't be hot fish and potatoes wrapped up and suspended by a strap.

That's what is being argued against and obviously, there are NO BARRIERS what-so-ever to this happening.

[Sam Flynn]

Scenes in History that Never Happened, #83:

"Where are you going, darling?"

"I'm off to buy some rancid fried food from a poor man's chandler's shop in Thrawl Street. Don't worry, I've got my chip-strap ready this time."

"Well don't forget your gold watch chain, silver tiepin and astrakhan coat. You'd better take this sheet of oilcloth, too, in case they've run out of paper."

[Sam Flynn]

If you experienced this then you know all too well, that a single layer of newspaper is going to be useless with greasy hot fish and chips. You get 'layers' plural. You might even be asked if you want it double/triple wrapped.

I doubt in 1888 Whitechapel that Chandlery keepers would be so generous as to multiple wrap take-away foods in a newspaper.

If they were doing this then how do you explain people taking their plates there to get food?

You don't take oilcloth and a strap to wrap fish and chips. In fact, you don't take anything; the chandler (or chippie owner) wraps it for you, and has a supply of paper - newspaper or otherwise - for this very purpose.

Give it up. It's a silly idea.

[Batman]

Fish and chips are warm, not exactly hot, and the paper they come wrapped in is perfectly capable of insulating the user from the faint risk of third-degree burns. Indeed, on a cold, rainy night, a fish supper tucked under the arm is truly one of life's great comforts.

Give it up, man.

If you experienced this then you know all too well, that a single layer of newspaper is going to be useless with greasy hot fish and chips. You get 'layers' plural. You might even be asked if you want it double/triple wrapped.

I doubt in 1888 Whitechapel that Chandlery keepers would be so generous as to multiple wrap take-away foods in a newspaper.

If they were doing this then how do you explain people taking their plates there to get food?