Have Ripperologists Been Polled As To Who They Think Jack Really Was?

[lynn cates]

aqui

Hello Greg. Here. Post #430.

Cheers.
LC

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=179643&highlight=harp#post179643

[GregBaron]

Ou est Monsieur?

Hello Malcolm. Look at the drawing and description of Frank Millen. Ringer for A-man.

Sorry to be ignorant Lynn, but can you point me to said drawing........?



Greg

[Abby Normal]

Yes but none of this will identify JTR, because the only person that cant be JTR is someone on crutches, any member of the public is capable of doing this, he only needs a bit of common sense and a couple of medical books at home to tell him where the organs are situated.

it wouldn't be hard to realise that to access the kidneys/ other organs etc, that you need a long vertical cut, to remove the guts and then from what you've seen in a book, simply hunt for them, this would take no more than 3 mins, finally, it's bloody obvious that you need a long sharp knife, plus you need to cut the victims throat first or to strangle her instead, any idiot will know this.

but what sort of moron has a strong enough stomach to handle this repulsive deed and why is he removing organs, because this i dont think is a trophy, he's removing these for another reason, this type of monster is rare and i dont think that you'd have two of these in action at the same time in Whitechapel.

finally, why is a woman hater etc mutilating carefully, no he would attack her like Sutcliffe....SORRY NO, JTR is after something else and doing this for another reason, he's interested in organs only and ritualistically cutting up and marking his victims too

you can see that JTR is not attacking them in a violent rage, again i say, he's after something and while he's at it, he's also toying with his knife

Hi malcom

finally, why is a woman hater etc mutilating carefully, no he would attack her like Sutcliffe....SORRY NO, JTR is after something else and doing this for another reason, he's interested in organs only and ritualistically cutting up and marking his victims too

you can see that JTR is not attacking them in a violent rage, again i say, he's after something and while he's at it, he's also toying with his knife[/QUOTE


This reminded me of BTK who when apprehended said something along the lines of "its all about the rope". As in the actual rope or whatever he used to strangle his victims with was just as much a factor in his "pleasure" as the act itself. he used to take pictures of himself bound up. I think we have a similar situation with JtR-it was all about the knife and what he could do with it. The organ removal prolonged his sensation of what he could do with his knife.

I agree i dont think he showed signs in his murders of rage, or women hating, or wanting to torture. This is someone who was fascinated by what his knife could do and who "got off on" using it.

[lynn cates]

A-man

Hello Malcolm. Look at the drawing and description of Frank Millen. Ringer for A-man.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

mutilations, etc

Hello Tom. Quite agree that it would take a "special" person both to kill AND mutilate women. Don't quite see why 3 would border on the absurd, though.

The Ripper Community, as a whole, have put forward a good 2 dozen chaps whom are thought capable of such.

Cheers.
LC

[Malcolm X]

Hello Malcolm. Well, you may discuss anytime. More than delighted to have a meaningful exchange--as your posts certainly are.

Regarding copycats: in my view, the TRUE copycat killing was Kate. (Too much alliteration? heh-heh)

I note what you say, but consider this. Of all the letters that came pouring in to the police and news agencies in the autumn of terror, how many are today taken as possibly authentic? 3 at most? But how many were inspired by one of those three?

See what I mean?

Cheers.
LC

well yes, somebody was definitely pretending to be JTR, as is the case with all big serial killer outbreaks, just look at Sutcliffe, in fact he also had a copycat, because these other murders Sutcliffe refused to take responsibility for, these were further south and about another 3 or 4 murders, if my memory servs me right.

but i dont think that you have much mileage in EDDOWES, but i do like the way you think, after all, LA DE DA could quite easily be somebody like Druitt etc, simply because there are many Brits that look like G.Chapman and many Europeans that look English too.

i keep thinking of G.Chapman, i always have, he came this close to slitting his wife's throat and turning her into a torso.... this close, but he was older and wiser and something stopped him, that a few years earlier wouldn't have.

and now we have A. CHAPMAN, who definitely looks like an older version of him.... much older, even so, he definitely does not look like JOE BARNETT, FLEMMING, OR GH.

from the back view G.Chapman has a gaunt/ bony and slightly potholed face, this puts years on you, especially with the moustache and dark sunken eyes........uuum ! not sure

you tell me.... he was described too well, decided to downgrade, decided to leave to be perfectly safe, WAITED AND RETURNED, changed M.O and poisoned instead...... i'm not sure, but he's highly suspicious.

he's a hairdressor/ a very junior surgeon, is he also a master of disguise and theatrical make up, because we definitely know that he's a LA DE DA dressor, is he the Lawende man in disguise, because i tell you that he could quite easily be.

this G.Chapman is just like Jeckyl and Hyde, unfortunately many here just dont realise this....anyway i'll talk soon i've got to go now.

[Tom_Wescott]

i have to direct my queries and doubts to Ben and he is not allowed to mention GH till Febuary.

This is a new one on me. Please explain. PM me if you'd like to keep it off the thread.

Yes but none of this will identify JTR, because the only person that cant be JTR is someone on crutches, any member of the public is capable of doing this, he only needs a bit of common sense and a couple of medical books at home to tell him where the organs are situated.

Just so there's no misunderstanding, I'm sure you don't believe that just anyone is capable of committing such atrocities. At any given time, in any society, there would be very few individuals capable of committing the murders we see in 1888. This is too often forgotten by us today playing 'hunt the Ripper'. Whoever killed these women wanted it so bad they were willing to take strong risks. More to the point, they were able to not only murder, but to desecrate the corpses. Most murderers wouldn't have thought to do these things. Even amongst murderers, a Jack the Ripper is rare. This point alone, when appreciated, should give one pause in thinking that more than one man was capable of Chapman, Eddowes, and Kelly. The idea that three men were behind these murders must border on the absurd.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

inspiration

Hello Malcolm. Well, you may discuss anytime. More than delighted to have a meaningful exchange--as your posts certainly are.

Regarding copycats: in my view, the TRUE copycat killing was Kate. (Too much alliteration? heh-heh)

I note what you say, but consider this. Of all the letters that came pouring in to the police and news agencies in the autumn of terror, how many are today taken as possibly authentic? 3 at most? But how many were inspired by one of those three?

See what I mean?

Cheers.
LC

[Malcolm X]

Hi Adam,

When...anywhere...have you seen me place emphasis on a doctor's estimated time of death in a Ripper case? The only time it's worthy of discussion is in the case of Kelly. Some find it necessary in light of my obliteration of the case against Michael Kidney to use the ETD by Black and Phillips to try and argue that Stride wasn't a Ripper victim, but unless this is your goal, or you're discussing Kelly, there's really no point in discussing these ETDs.

The medical opinion that matters is how they estimate the killer's skill and knowledge, and how long they estimate it would have taken to inflict the wounds.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Yes but none of this will identify JTR, because the only person that cant be JTR is someone on crutches, any member of the public is capable of doing this, he only needs a bit of common sense and a couple of medical books at home to tell him where the organs are situated.

it wouldn't be hard to realise that to access the kidneys/ other organs etc, that you need a long vertical cut, to remove the guts and then from what you've seen in a book, simply hunt for them, this would take no more than 3 mins, finally, it's bloody obvious that you need a long sharp knife, plus you need to cut the victims throat first or to strangle her instead, any idiot will know this.

but what sort of moron has a strong enough stomach to handle this repulsive deed and why is he removing organs, because this i dont think is a trophy, he's removing these for another reason, this type of monster is rare and i dont think that you'd have two of these in action at the same time in Whitechapel.

finally, why is a woman hater etc mutilating carefully, no he would attack her like Sutcliffe....SORRY NO, JTR is after something else and doing this for another reason, he's interested in organs only and ritualistically cutting up and marking his victims too

you can see that JTR is not attacking them in a violent rage, again i say, he's after something and while he's at it, he's also toying with his knife

[Malcolm X]

Lynn, well to be honest all of these murders could indeed be copycats, but sooner or later you have to take a stand and favour one or the other, or have a fav suspect too.

i therefore can not argue against you and i dont think i am anyway, but for me the last C3 are definitely linked.

i can not argue much about GH either, it's not the right time to do so, simply because i have to direct my queries and doubts to Ben and he is not allowed to mention GH till Febuary.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Adam,

When...anywhere...have you seen me place emphasis on a doctor's estimated time of death in a Ripper case? The only time it's worthy of discussion is in the case of Kelly. Some find it necessary in light of my obliteration of the case against Michael Kidney to use the ETD by Black and Phillips to try and argue that Stride wasn't a Ripper victim, but unless this is your goal, or you're discussing Kelly, there's really no point in discussing these ETDs.

The medical opinion that matters is how they estimate the killer's skill and knowledge, and how long they estimate it would have taken to inflict the wounds.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Phil Carter]

Hello Monty,

As you can see by the hour, its 2 am here. first chance to reply and I am up again in 5 hours, so this time please accept my apologies.. I will reply later.. had an extremely heavy day at work followed by end of term parents meetings and class panto thingy. Plus a reaction from one of the children that took a while to sort out and I wasnt home before 11. Will reply later when the battery is a little more charged.

Phil

[Debra A]

You can forget the torso murders they were never murders.

Oh yes they were Baron Figgypudding.

[mariab]

the first doctor to arrive on the scene, without the body having been tampered with, is always going to be in the best position to judge a time of death. The sooner they see it, the easier it is.

Unless the first medical person at the scene is the one who (accidentally) disturbs it, as suspected with Stride and Dr. Johnston. :-)

[Adam Went]

Tom:

What should also be borne in mind when considering the statements of Dr. Phillips throughout the case and beyond is that indeed no doctor can be perfectly accurate all the time, especially with the technology that was available to them in 1888 - but the first doctor to arrive on the scene, without the body having been tampered with, is always going to be in the best position to judge a time of death. The sooner they see it, the easier it is. This wasn't the case throughout the Ripper murders with Dr. Phillips, because Dr. Phillips wasn't always called first, it was the doctor nearest to the scene.....Llewellyn in Nichols' case, Blackwell in Stride's case, etc etc....all the more reason why Dr. Phillips' statements shouldn't be taken as law.

Cheers,
Adam.