Kosminski..why the big secret ?

[DVV]

Anderson only claimed 'Moral' proof...he never had enough to go to court.

Pirate

I'm afraid he never had enough to convince any of his colleagues...

Amitiés,
David

[Phil Carter]

Hello DVV,

Agreed. And as long as Kosminski cannot be incriminated on more than a "moral" statement by Anderson, we stand as far as we do with Druitt, imho.

best wishes

Phil

*edit* what are the chances that the signed "Seaside Home" Guest book suddenly appears from some loft or cellar? It's such an obvious "find" isn't it?
Sorry, I am being cynical now. Its age, Im told.

[Jeff Leahy]

Hello Phil!

Since I personally think, that JtR was an every-day-looking and behaving man outside, I don't think, that Kosminski could have been The Ripper!

All the best Jukka

Well this is where we must disagree slightly. I think it quite possible that Aaron was very much the sort of 'non entity' every day that you describe. Schizophrenics especially in the early stages of their illness can be quite plausable, petty high functioning and intelligent.

Pirate

[Natalie Severn]

You know Aaron clearly was often dirty and unkempt,it runs through the records on him.The medical records ,brief though they are,are consistent in presenting him as someone who will not work,who prefers not to wash or bathe and is indifferent about how he looks.While its true the records do not mention his masturbation,except as the reason his family give for him going "insane" ,his shameless indulgence in such behaviour seems likely and it clearly troubled his family .Moreover,it is certainly more evidence, that far from being a "paranoid schizophrenic" ,Aaron,if he suffered from any form of schizophrenia, was much more likely to have suffered from "simple schizophrenia" a form of the illness frequently found in harmless tramps and vagrants----or as his doctors put it,from 1894 onwards,from dementia.
Aaron Kosminski was a harmless chap,from all doctors accounts at Colney Hatch and Leavesdon and he was definitely quite vagrant in his habits-----he didnt want to work ,was often unclean and untidy,and was rather shameless .Very few,if any, paranoid schizophrenics would be caught carrying on like Aaron apparently did! Seriously!
If you ask me Aaron Kosminski wouldnt have had the slightest "inclination" to stir himself from his bed sufficiently to have been running round Whitechapel with his knife,rapidly disembowelling "unfortunates" and always with the planned strategic exits,planned cleaning up of his person and carefully thought through escape routes that must have been involved.He would have preferred ,I am sure ,to have walked someone"s dog for a couple of bob and otherwise sat around doing nothing all day.Jack the Ripper was an operator.Aaron Kosminski was not.

[Jeff Leahy]

You know Aaron clearly was often dirty and unkempt,it runs through the records on him.The medical records ,brief though they are,are consistent in presenting him as someone who will not work,who prefers not to wash or bathe and is indifferent about how he looks.While its true the records do not mention his masturbation,except as the reason his family give for him going "insane" .His shameless behaviour clearly troubled his family and is certainly more evidence that far from being a "paranoid schizophrenic" ,Aaron,if he suffered from any form of schizophrenia, was much more likely to have suffered from "simple schizophrenia" a form of the illness frequently found in harmless tramps and vagrants.Well Aaron Kosminski was a harmless chap,from all doctors accounts at Colney Hatch and Leavesdon and definitely quite vagrant in his habits-----he didnt want to work ,was often unclean and untidy,and had a rather shameless obsession with masturbation.No paranoid schizophrenic would be caught dead carrying on like that! Seriously!
If you ask me Aaron Kosminski wouldnt have had the slightest inclination to stir himself sufficiently to have been running round Whitechapel with his knife,rapidly disembowelling "unfortunates" and always with the strategic exits,pre-planned cleaning up of his person and carefully thought through escape routes that must have been involved.He would have preferred ,I am sure ,to have walked someone"s dog for a couple of bob and otherwise sat around doing nothing all day.Jack the Ripper was an operator.Aaron Kosminski wasnt.

There is no record of his condition or schizophrenia in 1888.

He could have been quite a hansom toff for all anybody knows?

Pirate

[Chris]

That and I still wanna know where the eating-from-the-gutter-because-the-voices-told-him-so rumour[?] originated from and whether or not it could be confirmed by more than one person (specifically by the locals who knew of him in the area or, better still, those who actually knew him).

It comes from Dr Houchin's certificate:

In the matter of Aaron Kozminski of 16 Greenfield St Mile End E in the county of London Hair Dresser an alleged lunatic.
I, the undersigned Edmund King Houchin do hereby certify as follows ...
2. On the 6th day of February 1891 at the Mile End Old Town Workhouse in the county of London I personally examined the said Aaron Kozminski and came to the conclusion that he is a person of unsound mind and a proper person to be taken charge of and detained under care and treatment.
3. I formed this conclusion on the following grounds, viz.:-
(a) Facts indicating insanity observed by myself at the time of examination, viz.:-
He declares that he is guided & his movements altogether controlled by an instinct that informs his mind; he says that he knows the movements of all mankind; he refuses food from others because he is told to do so and eats out of the gutter for the same reason.
(b) Facts communicated by others, viz.:-
Jacob Cohen 51 Carter Lane St Pauls, City of London says that he goes about the streets and picks up bits of bread out of the gutter & eats them, he drinks water from the tap & he refuses food at the hands of others. He took up a knife & threatened the life of his sister. He says that he is ill and his cure consists in refusing food. He is melancholic, practises self-abuse. He is very dirty and will not be washed. He has not attempted any kind of work for years.
4. The said Aaron Kozminski appeared to me to be in a fit condition of bodily health to be removed to an asylum, hospital or licensed house ...
Signed E. K. Houchin.
of 23 High St Stepney.
Dated, Feb 6th 1891.
[LMA StBG/ME/107/8, no 1558]

[The Good Michael]

It still interests me that he was listed as a hairdresser in 1891, but hadn't worked for years and was dirty. (Thanks for the posting, Chris)

This means to me that he was a hairdresser at one time, and that would have been sometime before 1889 if I go by 'years'.

Someone who was identified as a hairdresser could not have been so unkempt and seemingly insane while plying his trade, else no trade would he have. This means, undoubtedly, that there was a time of reasonable enough coherence that Kosminski had a job. I do get rather sick of the inanity of people claiming he was a full-blown nutjob in 1888 when that clearly is unknown, but surely must lean towards him having had a hairdresser's job around that time.

Cheers,

Mike

[DVV]

Hi Mike,

I guess he stopped working after he cut some ears and sent them to Anderson.

Amitiés,
David

ps: Ireland / Italy...how boring it was...

[Phil Carter]

David,

Nope, his scissors slipped and he took out a kidney.

best wishes

Phil

[Mascara & Paranoia]

It comes from Dr Houchin's certificate:

In the matter of Aaron Kozminski of 16 Greenfield St Mile End E in the county of London Hair Dresser an alleged lunatic.
I, the undersigned Edmund King Houchin do hereby certify as follows ...
2. On the 6th day of February 1891 at the Mile End Old Town Workhouse in the county of London I personally examined the said Aaron Kozminski and came to the conclusion that he is a person of unsound mind and a proper person to be taken charge of and detained under care and treatment.
3. I formed this conclusion on the following grounds, viz.:-
(a) Facts indicating insanity observed by myself at the time of examination, viz.:-
He declares that he is guided & his movements altogether controlled by an instinct that informs his mind; he says that he knows the movements of all mankind; he refuses food from others because he is told to do so and eats out of the gutter for the same reason.
(b) Facts communicated by others, viz.:-
Jacob Cohen 51 Carter Lane St Pauls, City of London says that he goes about the streets and picks up bits of bread out of the gutter & eats them, he drinks water from the tap & he refuses food at the hands of others. He took up a knife & threatened the life of his sister. He says that he is ill and his cure consists in refusing food. He is melancholic, practises self-abuse. He is very dirty and will not be washed. He has not attempted any kind of work for years.
4. The said Aaron Kozminski appeared to me to be in a fit condition of bodily health to be removed to an asylum, hospital or licensed house ...
Signed E. K. Houchin.
of 23 High St Stepney.
Dated, Feb 6th 1891.
[LMA StBG/ME/107/8, no 1558]

Oh, sweet. Cheers mate. xD

So it seems as though it came from Aaron's very own mouth. I'm can live with that.

[DVV]

David,

Nope, his scissors slipped and he took out a kidney.

best wishes

Phil

Thanks Phil.

I stand corrected.

No Brit could do that.

Amitiés,
David

[Natalie Severn]

It still interests me that he was listed as a hairdresser in 1891, but hadn't worked for years and was dirty. (Thanks for the posting, Chris)

This means to me that he was a hairdresser at one time, and that would have been sometime before 1889 if I go by 'years'.

Someone who was identified as a hairdresser could not have been so unkempt and seemingly insane while plying his trade, else no trade would he have. This means, undoubtedly, that there was a time of reasonable enough coherence that Kosminski had a job. I do get rather sick of the inanity of people claiming he was a full-blown nutjob in 1888 when that clearly is unknown, but surely must lean towards him having had a hairdresser's job around that time.

Cheers,

Mike

Well how I read it,Mike, taking in all that I know to date, is that Kosminski had become insane,according to Macnaghten, "owing to many years indulgence in solitary vices"[masturbation].
Anderson in his Blackwoods magazine series,states that The Ripper was a "sexual maniac of a virulent type" and in his autobiographical book version published a few months later, in 1910 ,Anderson states that Jack the Ripper was a Polish Jew , who engaged in "utterly unmentionable vices".
So we are left to think that the type of masturbation this person indulged in was behaviour that was sufficiently horrific for Anderson to believe him to be none other than Jack the Ripper.That the Ripper"s behaviour when engaged in his "solitary vices " revealed a "sexual maniac" and a man " engaged in utterly unmentionable vices that had reduced him to a level lower than that of a brute".
I would suggest therefore, that Kosminski"s behaviour was so outrageous that it may even have been some sort of "public spectacle"-along with eating out of gutters etc.
If this is added to statements about how dirty and untidy he was a picture begins to emerge of a shameless and idle young man who ,from 1885 was making such an exhibition of himself both in and outside the home, that his family decided to try to get him sectioned as insane.
But there is no mention in any of the doctors records or of the family"s concerns of outbursts of violence,unless you fasten everything on the one occasion we are told he threatened his sister with a knife.
Well thats not Ripper like activity.The Ripper was careful to avoid being either seen or caught, still less I would have thought to have been caught red handed masturbating .
It also strikes me as inconsistent that such an idle and unkempt young man would have been bothered ,or even had the know how,to execute a series of extraordinary murders some of which were committed at breakneck speed in the dark and clearly showed some organisational skills of planning, methods of attack,escape and ,in the case of some of the murders,skill with the knife?

[robhouse]

Despite the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever of Kozminski masturbating in public, or making such a public spectacle of himself by doing so—such an argument probably works against your thesis. Dahmer for example (another so-called "lust killer" like the Ripper) was caught exhibiting himself and (I believe) masturbating in public. I am not at liberty to look up the details right now...

[Natalie Severn]

The evidence Rob,appears to be that everyone knew about it.Now I doubt it was just by word of mouth.So how on earth was it known that this poor chap indulged for many years in this "abominable " business??? Was someone posted to watch him? Unless someone WAS posted outside his room- night and day-how on earth did they know what he was doing?

[Chris]

Despite the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever of Kozminski masturbating in public, or making such a public spectacle of himself by doing so ...

Indeed. We have to remember the conditions in which Aaron's family was living. Aaron was one of 11 people - 5 adults and 6 children - living in a four-roomed house. It would have been extremely difficult to have the slightest privacy.