Kosminski..why the big secret ?

[Natalie Severn]

Dave,
Thanks for your post.I am off to bed now ,as I have some sort of virus thats making me tired-but I will get back to you.
Best
Norma

[DaveMc]

Well thats how I perceive the Ripper too Jukka. Reasonably neat and tidy,blending in with others in behaviour.But we could be wrong.
Best
Norma

Hi Norma,

This is one of those things I need to sort out for myself.
Whitechapel was reported in articles to be a busy place.
Reading the various police reports, there seems to be fewer but regularly a fair number of people out on the streets.

If I equate that to large Metropolitan areas like New York City and Washington DC, who is going to know Kosminski if he lives 3 or 4 blocks away?

Unless he regularly wanders a pie shaped area from Osborne to Commercial,
(North moving East)
then who is going to recognize him in those areas?

A guy with his face to the back of a horse singing "God Save The Queen" is going to be noticed.
Otherwise he would just be another stranger like the rest if he just walks the streets talking to the women, no matter how internally unbalanced he may be. He's less likely to stand out as anyone worth notice.

I need to know the daily culture of Whitechapel better.

Yet another Dave

[DVV]

Agreed, Norma,

I too take care of these top-wa*k officials.

Amitiés,
David

[Natalie Severn]

Well David,I am a bit unwilling to call the poor chap names but I do think Robert Anderson was very, very troubled by hearing about such a"beastly" business---so if he is at all representative of the Victorian Police,then yes,they saw it as against God"s law as well as being off the wall and up the pole!

[DVV]

Hi Norma,

as a to**er, he was resisting the law...of God, wasn't he?

Amitiés,
David

[Natalie Severn]

It could well be the case that his family had gone to the police to complain about his habit of masturbation.In those days the police may have considered it criminally insane type of behaviour-especially if they thought he was unable to control himself in the family home environment.Tying his hands behind his back could ofcourse have been standard for anybody resisting the law,not because they were bothered about what he would do with his hands otherwise!

[DVV]

It seems probable that it was different from his condition when he was finally taken in with his hands behind his back.

Pirate

Hands behind his back, yes...

An efficient way to prevent self-abuse.

Amitiés,
David

[Jeff Leahy]

Yep, early psychotic attacks could have taken him in almost any direction. The plain truth is we dont know what Aaron's condition was in 1888.

It seems probable that it was different from his condition when he was finally taken in with his hands behind his back.

Pirate

[Natalie Severn]

Well thats how I perceive the Ripper too Jukka. Reasonably neat and tidy,blending in with others in behaviour.But we could be wrong.
Best
Norma

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Natalie!

I cannot help saying this again; so, he was too striking to go unnoticed in the East End.

Thus; not the right type of a person to be Jack the Ripper.

All the best
Jukka

[Natalie Severn]

Rob and David,
Actually Aaron Kosminski is not ever recorded by the hospital as behaving in a lewd manner or of any noticeable tendency to masturbate,but his family appear to have believed this habit of his had caused his insanity,judging from his admission record,which is the last occasion where it appears it was referred to.
But then ,there is no mention either ,of him exposing himself either in public or of ever being in trouble with the police,as in fact Dahmer was.I wasnt thinking of Kosminski "exposing" himself exactly,which is a very aggressive ,more or less violent act,but of being indifferent and inconsiderate towards his family and clearly continuing his habit ,however he did so, and despite their disapproval,which seems to have upset them a good deal.
The point I was trying to make though was that Kosminski"s untidy,unclean appearance,refusal to work etc and seeming indifference to socially acceptable behaviour, point more to someone with dementia or possibly "simple" schizophrenia,rather than paranoid schizophrenia.Also to note that doctors make a specific note of him not being a danger to others,on his admission which suggests he did not have the paranoid form of schizophrenia.
But Rob,I must say,that like David,I agree that what you have quoted is a cause for thoughtful consideration,so thanks for that.Your quote on Dahmer,particularly --- as well as the one on the sexual behaviour patterns of a control group of schizophrenics is definitely illuminating!

[DVV]

Merci beaucoup, Rob,

je vais me coucher avec le sourire...

Je voulais simplement dire que oui, l'exemple de Dahmer pouvait ajouter de la profondeur à la candidature de Kosminski (si Kosminski était effectivement un exhibitionniste), mais que d'un autre côté, l'exhibitionnisme pouvait tout aussi bien jouer en sa défaveur.

Encore une fois, hélas, tout dépend de l'image que chacun, presque malgré lui, se fait de Jack...

Amitiés,
David

[robhouse]

C'est pas un probleme mon ami. Je parle francais un peu, mais malheurusement pas tres bien. Ciao.

Rob H

[DVV]

Rob,

I see what you mean... Unfortunately, I'm afraid my English is too poor to express myself well at this point, cos we really find ourselves sur le fil du rasoir, here...

Let's say I'm not sure your point is valid (despite Dahmer's example), but it may be...
Sorry to lack words...!

Amitiés,
David

[robhouse]

David,

Agreed. My only point was exhibitionism (or masturbating in public) is somewhat different from a psychological point of view than masturbation in private... specifically it is in the range of a criminal paraphilia. My point was that IF Kozminski actually engaged in exhibitionism, I think it would be more of an argument in favor of his being the Ripper than not. (I am not claiming he did do this, but I am just making a point...)

Rob H