Kosminski..why the big secret ?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jeff,

Colney Hatch Asylum was the default mental institution for Jewish patients from the Metropolitan Police area, just as Stone Asylum was for City Jewish patients.

In the Male Day Patients Book of Colney Hatch, 6th February 1891, Dr. EK Houchin wrote Kosminski's initial case notes. Do you think he knew at the time that he was writing the case notes of Jack the Ripper?

Regards,

Simon

[c.d.]

Hi Jeff,

Colney Hatch Asylum was the default mental institution for Jewish patients from the Metropolitan Police area, just as Stone Asylum was for City Jewish patients.

In the Male Day Patients Book of Colney Hatch, 6th February 1891, Dr. EK Houchin wrote Kosminski's initial case notes. Do you think he knew at the time that he was writing the case notes of Jack the Ripper?

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon,

Human nature tells me that if Scotland Yard really believed that they had captured the Ripper, every Scotland Yard detective would have made a trip to that mental institution and the word would have gotten out.

c.d.

[The Good Michael]

I'm fairly happy with a diagnosis of a form of 'Schizophrenia'.

But then you weaken your argument by stating something that cannot even be remotely proven. It's best to leave this one as mental illness, non-specific and go on to other arguments that can have a more conclusive outcome.

Cheers,

Mike

[Jeff Leahy]

I'll continue to take the advice of those qualified to give it.

I've never claimed to be an expert in Schizophrenia.

Pirate

[c.d.]

If top Scotland Yard officials believed that they had caught the Ripper and had him institutionalized and wanted to keep it quiet for whatever reason, wouldn't they have had to instruct minor officials and the troops on the ground to discontinue their search for the Ripper and give them other assignments? Wouldn't that have caused talk and speculation by those out of the loop? Yet we never hear of anything like that happening.

c.d.

[robhouse]

Edmund King Houchin examined Aaron Kozminski at Mile End Old Townhouse on February 6, and wrote up an outline of his symptoms. This was essentially a certification of insanity. In this document, Houchin gave the classification of insanity as "person of unsound mind". Kozminski was admitted to Colney Hatch the next day.

In response to your question Simon... I do not know if the police had any involvement in Aaron's admission to Mile End or Colney Hatch. I have always felt that they may have been "involved" in some capacity behind the scenes, but that they were not actually present when Kozminski was brought to the workhouse then to the asylum. Chris Phillips I think disagrees with this, and believes that the police were not involved at all. But really it is an unknown.

However, it is important to note that Houchin was a police surgeon for H Division, so this may factor into things.

I have always thought that the Police may have informed some of the Top Asylum officials about Kozminski, but told them to keep their suspicions about him a secret... i.e. not to inform the asylum staff. This to me would be a reasonable course of action since they apparently suspected him, but were legally unable to proceed with any sort of case against him. In other words, what else could they do?

RH

[robhouse]

CD,

The police did in fact begin to draw down their investigations into the Ripper murders around early 1889... specifically, it seems around March (which is coincidentally the date Macnaghten erroneously gives for Kozminski's asylum entry.) Around March, the extra patrols were phased out, Abberline was removed from the case, etc. Stewart Evans has argued that this was simply because of the Ripper's inactivity, and because of the extra cost of the patrols. This is a valid argument, but I think there may have been other reasons.

Also, I think it is likely that many of the "ground" forces were aware of Kozminski as a suspect. City Detective Henry Cox for example may well have been talking about Kozminski in his later reminiscences. As he said, "There were several other officers with me, and I think there can be no harm in stating that the opinion of most of them was that the man they were watching had something to do with the crimes" He also said that the man "was never arrested for the reason that not the slightest scrap of evidence could be found to connect him with the crimes." This ties in well with what Anderson said.

Also arguably, Swanson may have claimed (in the marginalia) that the details about Kozminski as a suspect (for example the identification, and any other information they had gathered about him... from informants etc) were only known to "head officers of CID". So I think it is entirely plausible that there was an effort on the part of the head officials at Scotland Yard to suppress the story. I do not think they would have informed anyone, including the lower police officials or the ground detectives about any of this. I think the only people who would have been informed were those on a "need to know" basis. Like, for example, the top officials at the Asylums.

Rob H

[c.d.]

Thanks for that, Rob.

What you say makes sense. Looks like I will have to rethink my position on old Aaron.

c.d.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Rob,

Thank you for answering my question to Jeff. I guess his latest copy of the LVA newsletter has yet to arrive.

How could the police NOT have had any involvement in the admission of Jack the Ripper to Colney Hatch Asylum? It beggars belief. So to whom did they entrust the safe committal of possibly the most dangerous man in the world? When Joseph Isaacs was arrested the police "subsequently brought away the prisoner in a cab, which was strongly escorted". And if the police were not involved in Kosminski's committal how did Swanson know that he "had been with his hands tied behind his back he was sent to Stepney Workhouse and then to Colney Hatch"? Who told him?

Edmund King Houchin also went on to become Wynne Baxter's deputy. But more importantly, nine days after Kosminski's committal he was at Arbour Square police station treating a real Ripper suspect, James Sadler, for a broken rib.

The officer in charge of the case was Donald Swanson, so he and Houchin must have felt spoiled for choice when it came to Ripper suspects.

I'm sorry, Rob, but the Kosminski as Ripper idea defies simple logic.

Don't get me wrong. I'd be fascinated to read a book about Kosminski, his struggles in Poland/Russia and eventual emigration to England, only to be committed to a mental asylum at the age of 26 where he would die aged 54. What a story it would make. But to hang the book on Aaron's candidacy as Jack the Ripper . . ? Please, for pity's sake, don't do it unless you have more than a highly subjective interpretation of his mental condition, a few maybes and a dollop of wishful thinking all topped off with the less than reliable word of Sir Robert Anderson and some dodgy marginalia.

You at least owe Aaron Kosminski that much.

Regards,

Simon

[Chris]

How could the police NOT have had any involvement in the admission of Jack the Ripper to Colney Hatch Asylum? It beggars belief.

I can understand why Rob thinks the police may have been involved. I'm less clear why you do, considering that you don't believe Aaron Kozminski was even under police suspicion.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Chris,

I don't believe a word of it.

I should have prefaced my question with "If the Kosminski story was true . . . .

Regards,

Simon

[Chris]

I don't believe a word of it.

I should have prefaced my question with "If the Kosminski story was true . . . .

Well, I suppose it depends what you mean by "the Kosminski story", but the obvious possibility is that Aaron's family took him to the workhouse and he was then committed to Colney Hatch in the usual way.

[robhouse]

"How could the police NOT have had any involvement in the admission of Jack the Ripper to Colney Hatch Asylum? It beggars belief."

Simon,

I think the real question you should ask is , "How COULD the police have had any involvement in the admission of Kozminski?" The had absolutely NO LEGAL AUTHORITY to convict him, so I don't see how you think they would have had any legal basis to do anything with him at all. If the Police were involved, again, I think it must have been is a somewhat unofficial capacity. Given the extraordinary nature of the Ripper crimes, I do not think that this is an unreasonable suggestion.

Please don't get preachy with me and tell me what to write and not to write. Let's keep this civil if possible. I think I "owe" about as much to Kozminski as you do to Anderson... which means giving my fair and honest assessment of him as a historical figure.

Rob

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Jeff,

Do you think he knew at the time that he was writing the case notes of Jack the Ripper?

Regards, Simon

I dont know the answer to this but can speculate some personal opinion.

I think there was disagreement amounng the Kosminski family how best to habdle teh situation. Some believing some not.

Wolf decided to get Aaron out of harms way as quickly as possible.

I think there was a hint of background trouble but not direct police involvement.

Pirate

PS I think you should also be careful drawing the conclusion that those of us who believe Anderson's story
to be true. And also the ID scenario. Necessarily conclude that Aaron was JtR. Thats another jump entirely.

[Natalie Severn]

But here we have another conundrum.
The Chief Commissioner of the City of London Police was Henry Smith,who along with Inspectors Abberline , Reid and Dew totally rejected any claim by anyone at all that the Ripper"s identity or address was ever known,to the police ,either at the time[1888] or twenty years later.So how could City Detective Henry Cox have been referring to Kosminski,when his boss Smith ridicules the mere notion that Kosminki or rather a" Polish Jew" was the Ripper?

Like so much else nothing tallies or makes good sense about Anderson"s suspect.