Kosminski..why the big secret ?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jeff,

I think you should also be careful drawing the conclusion that those of us who believe Anderson's story to be true. And also the ID scenario. Necessarily conclude that Aaron was JtR. Thats another jump entirely.

Are you telling me that you've discovered another definitely ascertained Polish Jew?

Regards,

Simon

[Toofew]

We'll see where this one ends up.

Originally Posted by spyglass

If Mcnaghten and Anderson really did know the identity of JTR ( Kosminski )
wouldnt it be safe to assume then that the likes of Abberline and other senior investigating officers would have been made aware of this?
Also, wouldnt it have been in the police's intrest to let the people and press know that they had at last caught their man concidering all the criticism they had been under, why keep it secret ?

As a neophyte who has been away for several years working on another interest's Project From Hell, I grabbed Sugden's 2002 revision of The Complete History of JtR off the shelf to begin relearning the case. On p. 378-379 he quoted from the draft version of MM's report in which MM stated "Personally, after much careful & deliberate consideration, I am incined to exonerate the last 2, but I have always held strong opinions regarding no. 1" The suspects were Druitt, Kosminski & Ostrog in that order.

Billy

[spyglass]

It's no wonder then that certain conspiracy theorys take hold, It has always seemed to me that all senior police officers all the way up to the top were throwing out red herrings and contradictions as if instructed to.
This would make a lot of sense when reading these pages along side another thread entitled "WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT "

[jason_c]

I wish I could find Major Heny Smith's quote concerning Jews. It was along the lines of them being innocent of committing any crime in the East End.

Can anyone provide the quote?

[robhouse]

But here we have another conundrum.
The Chief Commissioner of the City of London Police was Henry Smith,who along with Inspectors Abberline , Reid and Dew totally rejected any claim by anyone at all that the Ripper"s identity or address was ever known,to the police ,either at the time[1888] or twenty years later.So how could City Detective Henry Cox have been referring to Kosminski,when his boss Smith ridicules the mere notion that Kosminki or rather a" Polish Jew" was the Ripper?

Like so much else nothing tallies or makes good sense about Anderson"s suspect.

Natalie,
as I am sure you are aware, Swanson said that Kozminski was kept under surveillance by City CID. Now certainly, Smith must have been aware of this. Still, I do not see why this implies that Smith must have shared Cox's opinion that the man they were watching had something to do with the crimes. Nor do I think that the MET necessarily would have shared all their information with Smith.

Rob

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Jeff,



Are you telling me that you've discovered another definitely ascertained Polish Jew?

Regards,

Simon

Its just another remarkable fact that one would always "pop up" whenever Sir Robert or his apprentice heard mention of Jack the Ripper

[robhouse]

Its just another remarkable fact that one would always "pop up" whenever Sir Robert or his apprentice heard mention of Jack the Ripper

What are you talking about here? I assume nothing... that you are just joking

[Howard Brown]

I wish I could find Major Heny Smith's quote concerning Jews. It was along the lines of them being innocent of committing any crime in the East End.

Can anyone provide the quote?
Jason C

Jason:

This is what you were asking for:

"Sir Robert talks of the "Lighter Side" of his Official Life." There is nothing "light" here ; a heavier indictment could not be framed against a class whose conduct contrasts most favourably with that of the Gentile population of the Metropolis.--Chapter 16, "From Constable To Commissioner,"

Jason, in terms of hooliganism, street prostitution, assaults...Jews are disproportionately underrepresented considering their numbers in the immediate vicinity.
However, in the realm of gambling, from my experience in newspaper trawling, Jews are represented equally if not in larger numbers than their population at large. Several gambling house raids mention quite a few local Jews.

Hope this helps. Some other comments may be found here:

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?p=96216#post96216

[Chris]

I wish I could find Major Heny Smith's quote concerning Jews. It was along the lines of them being innocent of committing any crime in the East End.

That sounds a bit too sweeping, though the Jewish community in the East End generally seems to have been considered more law-abiding than the Gentile - its besetting vice being gambling*.

The relevant chapter of Smith's memoirs can be found here:

http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media/rps.constable.html

[* Edit: As I see Howard Brown has just posted.]

[The Good Michael]

However, in the realm of gambling, from my experience in newspaper trawling, Jews are represented equally if not in larger numbers than their population at large. Several gambling house raids mention quite a few local Jews.

We can probably include the coercion of young Jewish immigrants into prostitution here as well.

Cheers,

Mike

[jason_c]

I wish I could find Major Heny Smith's quote concerning Jews. It was along the lines of them being innocent of committing any crime in the East End.

Can anyone provide the quote?
Jason C

Jason:

This is what you were asking for:

"Sir Robert talks of the "Lighter Side" of his Official Life." There is nothing "light" here ; a heavier indictment could not be framed against a class whose conduct contrasts most favourably with that of the Gentile population of the Metropolis.--Chapter 16, "From Constable To Commissioner,"

Jason, in terms of hooliganism, street prostitution, assaults...Jews are disproportionately underrepresented considering their numbers in the immediate vicinity.
However, in the realm of gambling, from my experience in newspaper trawling, Jews are represented equally if not in larger numbers than their population at large. Several gambling house raids mention quite a few local Jews.

Hope this helps. Some other comments may be found here:

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?p=96216#post96216

Howard,

Thank you for the reply. I dont think that's the actual quote I was after. The quote from Smith I was thinking of is even stronger and more outlandish. It was along the lines of Jews never having committed a crime in the East End. Its an outlandish statement from him and im determined to find it as it would suggest Smith's anti Anderson, pro Jewish stance was more political and ideological rather than dealing accurately with the subject.

[DaveMc]

I'm not thorough on my opinion but I don't think they knew, beyond question, who the killer was.

One thing I picked up from Anderson's story "The Lighter Side of My Official Life" is that Anderson, according to himself, never made a mistake.
I think that when he returned to London he reviewed the case and started arresting every suspect or putting them under threat.

People like Druitt were likely threatened with public humiliation and killed themselves. It's not unreasonable that the Police visited Valentine's school with questions or information and caused his dismissal.

Others fled the country in fear of false accusation or imprisonment.
Others were faced with prosecution or accepting to be committed to institutions.

Basically, he solved the problem by locking everybody away in one form or another.

If that is, indeed, what Anderson did I would expect to see a confusion of mixed opinion among the officers.
It might also be one of several reasons for the suppression of the information.

I'm not aware of any other instance where information is destroyed or withheld for the sake of the citizenry.
When documents are hidden, it's for the selfish preservation of an individual or a close group of individuals.

I'd like to know from someone who lives in London today if the leadership of Scotland Yard or Home Office in 2010 would expose a Gestapo-like tactic from 1888 or would they see it as an embarrassment and still want it kept a secret.

[jason_c]

"Basically, he (Anderson) solved the problem by locking everybody away in one form or another."


Dave,

An interesting take on the matter.

We now have Anderson seriously involved in the investigation by locking numerous individuals up and threatening them. Then we have the Anderson who was hardly involved in the investigation, spending most of the time on the continent.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Dave,

"[Anderson] solved the problem by locking everybody away in one form or another."

It's called compartmentalization. In intelligence circles a person's access or restriction to sensitive information is adjudged on the popularly termed "need to know" basis.

Regards,

Simon

[robhouse]

So now we have Anderson as a liar, a boaster, forgetful, possibly insane, a racist, and now... the head of the Gestapo. Godwin's law succeeds again.

"Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies) is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."

RH