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What makes Druitt a viable suspect?

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  • A common perception has always been that Monty's suicide was coincidence with the end of the C5 murders, that his death is the only justification for him being a suspect.

    Why isn't Richard Brown, aged 36 a suspect? He committed suicide on 16th Nov. 1888, in Hyde Park by revolver. Why wasn't he a suspect?

    Why isn't Charles Terry, aged 39 a suspect?, He committed suicide on 4th Dec., on a Woolwich tramcar by cutting his own throat, why isn't he a suspect?

    If we just check the press reports for suicides between 10 Nov & 31st Dec, there are dozens of suspects to choose from.
    So why Druitt?
    There had to be more than just his suicide.
    Regards, Jon S.

    Comment


    • Hi Jon,

      Apart from mentions in Macnaghten's memoranda, there is absolutely no reason for suspecting Druitt of having been the Ripper.

      BTW. Chris George wrote an excellent piece about Richard Brown in Ripperologist 49.

      Regards,

      Simon
      Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
        A common perception has always been that Monty's suicide was coincidence with the end of the C5 murders, that his death is the only justification for him being a suspect.

        Why isn't Richard Brown, aged 36 a suspect? He committed suicide on 16th Nov. 1888, in Hyde Park by revolver. Why wasn't he a suspect?

        Why isn't Charles Terry, aged 39 a suspect?, He committed suicide on 4th Dec., on a Woolwich tramcar by cutting his own throat, why isn't he a suspect?

        If we just check the press reports for suicides between 10 Nov & 31st Dec, there are dozens of suspects to choose from.
        So why Druitt?
        There had to be more than just his suicide.
        Because no police of the day named any of them as suspects.

        Why did Macnaghten name Montie, “Private Information” pity we don’t know what it was, but 50 years after the MM comes to light he still hasn’t been absolutely cleared
        G U T

        There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

        Comment


        • I have a distant relative (umpteen times uncle) who died in the Assylum at Chiswick I could make a great theory that the murders drove him insane, it would fit with claims that the family knew who Jack was, but I’ve always been a sucker for evidence, just there really isn’t any other than speculation.
          G U T

          There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

            While Monty was alive his mother was being treated at the Brooks House Asylum, and was permitted frequent leaves of absence. So not in a serious mental condition. Anne was not certified again until April of 1889, she died of heart failure six months later.

            If Anne was not in a serious condition in late 1888, where is the justification for Monty using her condition as reason to end his life?
            There doesn’t appear to be a reason. I was only thinking out loud Wick. I wasn’t aware of the facts that you’ve mentioned. I’d only ask if it’s at all unlikely that her condition worsened in the month or so before Monty’s suicide? She then improved after his death only to be certified again in April 1849?
            Regards

            Herlock






            "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"

            Comment


            • If we just check the press reports for suicides between 10 Nov & 31st Dec, there are dozens of suspects to choose from.
              So why Druitt?
              There had to be more than just his suicide.
              Exactly. Having already selected 2 nonentities like Kosminski and Ostrog which would have made his point about their being much likelier candidates than Monty. And with a host of other asylum inmates to have his pick of to throw under the bus Macnaghten, second highest policeman in the land, Tory, pillar of Victorian society, link in the ‘old boy’ network, names a well-to-do, public schoolboy Barrister/schoolteacher and son of a surgeon. It makes no sense unless he had a reason to do so. He states that his reason for doing so were ‘private information’ and the family’s own suspicions. Could there have been a way for Mac to have gotten this private info? Yes, and not just one.
              Regards

              Herlock






              "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"

              Comment


              • In my opinion, there are only 2 possibilities:

                1. The killer(s) were extremely skilled at what they did, and their skill was what allowed them to not get caught. The more individual killer(s) you add in this scenario, the possibility that they all had this level of extraordinary skill becomes exponentially more unlikely.

                2. The police had a very high level of incompetence in the way they investigated murders, which allowed a large number of individual killers to get away with it.


                or 3. Some were clever, some were lucky, some the police made an error(s). Some were a combination of the aforementioned. You’re over-simplifying to justify your blanket dismissal of Druitt.
                Regards

                Herlock






                "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
                  Hi Jon,

                  Apart from mentions in Macnaghten's memoranda, there is absolutely no reason for suspecting Druitt of having been the Ripper.

                  BTW. Chris George wrote an excellent piece about Richard Brown in Ripperologist 49.

                  Regards,

                  Simon
                  Hi Simon.

                  The article by Chris has always been at the back of my mind, it represents 'the rest' of the suspects. All those who took their own life post Millers Court who never receive any consideration by theorists. Yet, the police must have looked at them. Accusations against family, friends & neighbors were all too common at the time. So, what impressed Mac. so much to raise Monty out of the crowd?

                  By way of a point of trivia, in the first week of Dec. 1888, the Pall Mall Gazette published a weekly return from the Registrar-General concerning deaths in principal cities of England and Wales. In London the average weekly suicide rate was 6, which lends itself to the possibility that during the last 7 weeks of 1888 (10 Nov - 31 Dec) there would be roughly 40+ (42) suicides in London alone.

                  Why Druitt?
                  Regards, Jon S.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                    Exactly. Having already selected 2 nonentities like Kosminski and Ostrog which would have made his point about their being much likelier candidates than Monty. And with a host of other asylum inmates to have his pick of to throw under the bus Macnaghten, second highest policeman in the land, Tory, pillar of Victorian society, link in the ‘old boy’ network, names a well-to-do, public schoolboy Barrister/schoolteacher and son of a surgeon. It makes no sense unless he had a reason to do so. He states that his reason for doing so were ‘private information’ and the family’s own suspicions. Could there have been a way for Mac to have gotten this private info? Yes, and not just one.
                    Students of the case will recall the name Evelyn Ruggles-Brise, a high official at the Home Office. Ruggles-Brise was the Private Secretary to Henry Matthews, he was the same age as Monty, they had played cricket together.
                    Mac. & Monty moved in common circles, which to my way of thinking suggests that any rumors that came to Mac. potentially came from reliable sources in his mind. Not via the common riff-raff out of tittle-tattle or aimless gossip.
                    Monty & Monty's family was/were well connected, which makes any rumors stemming from their own class more likely to carry weight.

                    There are two somewhat similar theories; one by J.J. Hainsworth and the other by David Andersen. Both authors deal with friends & associates of MJD who were in a position to know intimate details of Monty's life, medical problems and subsequently, could have been the reliable source used by Mac.
                    None of which is likely to surface in the form of tangible evidence in our day, but is quite likely to have been very influential to certain high officials in the government who trusted the opinions of each other.
                    Regards, Jon S.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Stacker View Post
                      https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...lliams-in-2016

                      since you seem to be wondering, this is in my opinion the most likely suspect by far. Post 6 contains a big detail.

                      if you want to argue with me about this suspect, please do so on the linked thread, not this thread by the way.
                      What can I say!!


                      You actually have the nerve to make this statement about Druitt:

                      . if not the absolute most ridiculously incoherent theories on the entire topic of the Rippers identity.
                      Whilst at the same you are supporting as a theory Williams’ utter drivel. A completely baseless fantasy without a shred of real evidence.

                      It has all the hallmarks of a conspiracy theorist fantasy though: a convoluted and nonsensical motive, a shadowy eminence grise figure, throw in a couple of people who were at the scene in an attempt to add realism then pick out a few errors in the reporting or a few spelling errors as pointers to the ‘dark plot.’

                      This theory is is a joke. I wonder why it hasn’t caught on?

                      Regards

                      Herlock






                      "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

                        Students of the case will recall the name Evelyn Ruggles-Brise, a high official at the Home Office. Ruggles-Brise was the Private Secretary to Henry Matthews, he was the same age as Monty, they had played cricket together.
                        Mac. & Monty moved in common circles, which to my way of thinking suggests that any rumors that came to Mac. potentially came from reliable sources in his mind. Not via the common riff-raff out of tittle-tattle or aimless gossip.
                        Monty & Monty's family was/were well connected, which makes any rumors stemming from their own class more likely to carry weight.

                        There are two somewhat similar theories; one by J.J. Hainsworth and the other by David Andersen. Both authors deal with friends & associates of MJD who were in a position to know intimate details of Monty's life, medical problems and subsequently, could have been the reliable source used by Mac.
                        None of which is likely to surface in the form of tangible evidence in our day, but is quite likely to have been very influential to certain high officials in the government who trusted the opinions of each other.
                        I’m re-reading Hainsworth at the moment. Did David Anderson write a book Wick? I can’t say that I recall the name....unlike Ruggles-Brise of course
                        Regards

                        Herlock






                        "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"

                        Comment


                        • Hello Wickerman,

                          Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

                          One of the questions is, was he truly insane?
                          We only have that vague note said to be found by William to justify insanity. Nothing we know about Monty's schedule or legal career suggests mental problems, or a decline in his duties either.
                          William was not entirely truthful at the inquest, so what else did William say that was not true?
                          there is no proof that Monty was insane but several members of his family have suffered from paranoid delusion and depression, his mother (certified insane), grandmother, aunt and elder sister also attempted or committed suicide. I don't know whether these are hereditary conditions but the sheer accumulation of these problems in his family alone may have had a negative influence on Monty and his actions.

                          In this light, the line "since Friday I felt that I was going to be like mother" in the letter to his employer may point to a state of unsound mind or depressive phase caused by health concerns and the sudden end of his career at Mr Valentine's school that may have led him to kill himself, provided the letter/note is real, of course. For what it's worth, it was mentioned by a number of local newspapers like the Southern Guardian (1 January 1889) but that alone is no real proof of authenticity.

                          Of course there's a certain chance that William made it up but to what purpose? It has been mentioned that William might have killed Monty in order to gain control over the family assets. I don't find that very plausible, there were more family members than Monty and William who had a say here, after all.

                          Cheers,

                          Boris
                          Last edited by bolo; 03-24-2019, 04:07 PM.
                          ~ All perils, specially malignant, are recurrent - Thomas De Quincey ~

                          Comment


                          • 'Since Friday I felt I was going to be like mother, and the best thing for me was to die.'
                            Could this mean that he was not fearing for his mental health but that he thought he would become a burden on his family? If the family thought that the mother going into a mental asylum was a burden and something they didn't want to broadcast with their social standing. Perhaps Druitt thought himself being dismissed from the school and if there was a serious allegation committing suicide might save the family from a scandal. Hence the wording on the note.
                            Last edited by Darryl Kenyon; 03-24-2019, 04:47 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Bare in mind, the "Since Friday, etc." was a paraphrase spoken by the coroner, not the actual words on the letter. Also, we still do not know whether there was one suicide letter or two, as reported by some of the press.
                              As for Monty being in "serious trouble", remember in the late 19th century suicide was a crime. If Mr Valentine had been led to believe Monty had attempted suicide once before then this might be the cause of his dismissal.
                              Also, it has been suggested the last day of November (Friday 30th) may have been the last day of the school term, hence the two cheques found on the body. So any dismissal may have been simply that Monty was 'paid in full' for this term and told not to come back when the new term begins next year, which isn't really a dismissal.
                              The fact his cricket club believed Monty had "gone abroad" may indicate nothing abrupt had taken place to cause them suspicion.
                              Regards, Jon S.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                                I’m re-reading Hainsworth at the moment. Did David Anderson write a book Wick? I can’t say that I recall the name....unlike Ruggles-Brise of course
                                Yes indeed...
                                https://www.amazon.com/Blood-Harvest.../dp/B00LNYU6JW
                                Regards, Jon S.

                                Comment

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