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A 3 Jacks Theory (Proposed by Randy Williams in 2016)

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  • A 3 Jacks Theory (Proposed by Randy Williams in 2016)

    Details as an interview:

    https://www.jack-the-ripper-tour.com...andy-williams/

    The theory is that a group of 3 different people were working together to commit not only the C5 murders but also a total of 8 or 9 other murders and/or attacks, for a total of 13 or 14.

    My personal view is that this theory provides the most likely solution to the case, though not quite to the level of meeting a preponderance of evidence threshold.
    I would give it a probability of a 40% chance of being true.

  • #2
    From the link above:

    "Q. What are the two bits of “Insider knowledge” you say Diemschutz had that only the killer could have known?
    Only he and Kozebrodski knew of grapes in Stride’s hand as they mentioned in newspaper interviews on Sunday. Grapes that were not seen by any of the police officials or doctors on the scene, but evidence of which was found three days later by Private Investigators LeGrand and Batchelor."

    Were there grapes in Stride's hand realy ?! This is one of Jack the Ripper legends that refuse to come to an end.


    The Baron

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Stacker View Post
      Details as an interview:

      https://www.jack-the-ripper-tour.com...andy-williams/

      The theory is that a group of 3 different people were working together to commit not only the C5 murders but also a total of 8 or 9 other murders and/or attacks, for a total of 13 or 14.

      My personal view is that this theory provides the most likely solution to the case, though not quite to the level of meeting a preponderance of evidence threshold.
      I would give it a probability of a 40% chance of being true.
      Hello Stacker,

      Welcome to the boards.

      There is certainly the possibility that the theory is true. Probability would seem to be where we have the problem. The crimes are so horrible and so unique we have trouble believing that a fellow human being could be capable of doing such a thing 131 years after the fact. The unique nature of the crimes is literally the reason that these boards exist. Now we have a theory that says not only was one man capable of these atrocities but that two other men were capable of performing these acts as well and that they all happened to be in the same place at the same time. Seems pretty farfetched and hard to accept without evidence.

      c.d.

      Comment


      • #4
        "This led me to the leader of that group of 3 men - Louis Diemschutz. He claimed to have found the body of Elizabeth Stride just outside his home on the premises of the club where he was steward and where he lived with his wife Anna Sarah. Historically, many murderers have pretended to "find" the body of their victim because they couldn't wait to see the results and/or they wished to insert themselves into the investigation"

        Before fetching anyone out of the club, he presumably got his pony out of the stable, hitched a cart to it, and placed it in the gateway of the yard to make it look like he'd only just got back from a day at the market.
        Kind regards, Sam Flynn

        "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

        Comment


        • #5
          I will say that Im convinced that the 3 men that stated they were with Louis by the body close to 12:45 told the truth. One of them was 17 year old Issac K. Which means Im also convinced that Louis, and some others like Eagle, Lave and perhaps Wess helped create a false timeline to protect the club. That doesn't mean I believe anyone of them killed Liz though. The stakes were high...tell a story that suggests that Liz was killed by someone still at the club, some 20 or so Jewish members, or tell a story that has an innocent discovery. Later, that is supplemented by a story that a gentile assaulted her in the street not 10 minutes before the estimated time of her throat cut. again, this story is presented by a Jewish local man, very possibly a club member or attendee that night. Its been reported here that Schwartz and Wess knew each other. And where was Israel moving from that day, an off census cottage in the passageway perhaps? Like Lave.

          Im not opposed to an idea that at least some murders were committed by someone we can legitimately call a Ripper, nor to an idea that some may have had political or personal relationships angles, I am to the idea that all were linked to the same person or group. We have what, 13 Unsolved murders in that Unsolved File? Five of which are presumed, perhaps incorrectly, to be by the JTR fellow. Using the Chapman murder, it seems clear that the killer didn't use the same shock display that suggested a terrorist act as in Bucks Row. A backyard, which could only be seen into from upper stories in the house(s) surrounding it, isn't a public display in the same way Polly was. And Mary Kellys room, in a tiny courtyard, with the drapes drawn, was left locked. Not the ease of access or public access youd expect with some socio political act of terror. Like the train station bombings were.
          Michael Richards

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by c.d. View Post

            Hello Stacker,

            Welcome to the boards.

            There is certainly the possibility that the theory is true. Probability would seem to be where we have the problem. The crimes are so horrible and so unique we have trouble believing that a fellow human being could be capable of doing such a thing 131 years after the fact. The unique nature of the crimes is literally the reason that these boards exist. Now we have a theory that says not only was one man capable of these atrocities but that two other men were capable of performing these acts as well and that they all happened to be in the same place at the same time. Seems pretty farfetched and hard to accept without evidence.

            c.d.
            For what it is worth, a local prosecutor (from Randy Williams home area of Luzerne County, Pennsylvania, not from the Rippers area) has said that they believe the evidence presented by him would be enough to press actual criminal charges against his suspects in court had they still been alive today.

            Source:

            https://www.citizensvoice.com/news/l...ings-1.2274958

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Stacker View Post
              For what it is worth, a local prosecutor (from Randy Williams home area of Luzerne County, Pennsylvania, not from the Rippers area) has said that they believe the evidence presented by him would be enough to press actual criminal charges against his suspects in court had they still been alive today.
              The problem with Randy Williams' theory is that you can replace every comma with the word "why?" and it falls apart.

              edit: ie. he claims eddowes had IK carved three times into her face, why the nose then? a full stop?
              Last edited by Takod; 03-24-2019, 06:17 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Stacker View Post

                For what it is worth, a local prosecutor (from Randy Williams home area of Luzerne County, Pennsylvania, not from the Rippers area) has said that they believe the evidence presented by him would be enough to press actual criminal charges against his suspects in court had they still been alive today.

                Source:

                https://www.citizensvoice.com/news/l...ings-1.2274958
                Then that Prosecutor needs to be subdued post haste, placed into a good quality straight jacket and immediately put into very well padded accommodation where they serve nice soft food to the strains of relaxing music.
                Regards

                Herlock






                "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Stacker View Post
                  Details as an interview:

                  https://www.jack-the-ripper-tour.com...andy-williams/

                  The theory is that a group of 3 different people were working together to commit not only the C5 murders but also a total of 8 or 9 other murders and/or attacks, for a total of 13 or 14.

                  My personal view is that this theory provides the most likely solution to the case, though not quite to the level of meeting a preponderance of evidence threshold.
                  I would give it a probability of a 40% chance of being true.
                  do these other murders include the torsos?
                  "Is all that we see or seem
                  but a dream within a dream?"

                  -Edgar Allan Poe


                  "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                  quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                  -Frederick G. Abberline

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                    do these other murders include the torsos?
                    Yes, though Elizabeth Jackson is the case where he is unsure whether or not she was a victim of these same 3 men.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Regards

                      Herlock






                      "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Stacker View Post
                        My personal view is that this theory provides the most likely solution to the case
                        other than, say, Druitt, who MacNaghten fingered as a very naughty boy, or, say; Kosminski / Cohen / some alias of the above, who went into an asylum and voila no more killings, or perhaps even Thomas Cutbush? At least Cutbush was aiming for the right sort of area - and as soon as he was off the streets no more killings,- perhaps Feigenbaum, or perhaps even The Magnificant 'erb doctor Twomblety, who was fled across the Atlantic whilst being chased by police and was never the same again since?

                        I don't like this theory because it neither provides the most likely solution to the case and nor does it provide even a likely one. It almost feels insulting to the victims to have read it (edit: and to the accused)

                        Friedmann: but Comrade, how do we bring about change?
                        Kozebrodsky: I do not know.
                        Diemschutz: I know! Let us simply kill the poorest and most unfortunate members of society, and create terror.
                        Kropotkin: Yes! A fantastic plan. You three, go and orchestrate some really really really really really elaborate plan that only a wing chun master could conceive. I will stand on the sidelines and just do the normal socialist incitements alongside this.
                        Diemschutz: !!! A master plan.
                        Kozebrodsky reaches for his Leninade, he is twenty years too soon,
                        Diemschutz: Stop that Kozebrodsky, we've got women to kill.

                        A few hours later

                        Kozebrodsky: We should cut their throats, maybe just... cut up the body or something?
                        Diemschutz: I feel much safer having you around than not, can you act shocked that you've found a body?
                        Kozebrodsky: MURDER! POLICE! MURDER!
                        Friedmann sighs
                        Friedmann: All I wanted... was change.
                        Last edited by Takod; 03-28-2019, 11:53 PM.

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