Suppose a City PC did see something near Mitre Square

[Hunter]

Hi Dave.

Read section 3, part 3. of the 1887 Coroner's Act.

[Cogidubnus]

Interestingly I found this too, which I hadn't realised:-

Where a coroner's inquisition charges a person with the oflence of murder or of manslaughter, or of being accessory before the fact to a murder, (which latter offence is in this Act included in the expression "murder,") the coroner shall issue his warrant for attesting or detaining such person (if such warrant has not previously been issued) and shall bind by recognizance all such persons examined before him as know or declare anything material touching the said offence to appear at the next court of oyer and terminer or gaol delivery at which the trial is to be, then and there to prosecute or give evidence against the person so charged.

All the best

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Michael

Great stuff, but it still says nothing about investigating suspects.

Well the section below from the same source seems to suggest it could fall as part of his duties in certain circumstances

It shall be the duty of the coroner in a case of murder or manslaughter to put into writing the statement on oath of those who know the facts and circumstances of the case, or so much of such statement as is material, and any such deposition shall be signed by the witness and also by the coroner.

The coroner should where possible follow the precise expressions of the witnesses in the first person. Tbe depositions are afterwards forwarded under section 5 to the proper officer of the court in which the trial is to be, and copies supplied, upon payment, to the person charged in the inquisition, if he requires them.

It's actually quite an interesting work, albeit a trifle heavy, and I'm making my way through it a little at time!

All the best

Dave

[Chris]

Do you see this as related to Cox's story?

On the whole I think Sagar and Cox were probably referring to different suspects, though it's difficult to be sure.

[Stephen Thomas]

and that's why they never arrested him because they knew who he was all make sense to me

Well that's what the man is supposed to have said 108 years ago.

Who are we to quibble?

[lynn cates]

because. . .

Hello Stephen. Thanks.

Because:

1. he refers to Kate as Kelly--not Eddowes, Beddowes or Conway.

2. the receding footsteps sounds like Coles' case

3. no such constable was heard at inquest

Yes, some things were held back, but the coroner, Langham, said as much at inquest.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Cox tales

Hello Chris. Thanks.

Do you see this as related to Cox's story?

Cheers.
LC

[Stephen Thomas]

Of Course?

Hello Jon. Of course, Sagar's story does not fit Mitre sq. Perhaps it refers to Coles?

Hello Lynn

Sagar's story (unlike Stephen White's) specifically mentions Mitre Square so why doubt where he is referring to?

DS Godley told HL Adam that Mitre Square was surrounded by police that night.

[The Good Michael]

Hi Damaso...clearly the role of a coroner has evolved over the years, and what is expected now, did not necessarily pertain in 1888. I don't claim to be expert in these matters, but this extract from a treatise on the 1887 Coroners Act suggests a far wider scope:-

Dave,

Great stuff, but it still says nothing about investigating suspects. In my opinion, the inquest's point was to ascertain death and get out of there. I think missing testimony from people that we would have liked to have seen in the reports isn't there because it doesn't add enough to the inquest to warrant any difficulties that may have been encountered while trying to bring witnesses in. In short, let the police do the hard legwork and the questioning and let the inquest be short and simple.

Mike

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Damaso...clearly the role of a coroner has evolved over the years, and what is expected now, did not necessarily pertain in 1888. I don't claim to be expert in these matters, but this extract from a treatise on the 1887 Coroners Act suggests a far wider scope:-

The coroner should therefore inquire as to the circumstances of the death; where and when the deceased died or was found dead; by whom he was last seen alive ; who was present, or who first saw the body after death ; whether any known illness existed ; whether any negligence or blame is alleged against anyone ; whether the deceased has been seen by any medical practitioner ; what is the supposed cause of death, either known or suspected ; whether the death was sudden ; whether caused by violence, as wounds, burns, ill-usage, poison, suicide ; and whether any mystery is attached. In cases of accident he should inquire who was present, or who first saw the deceased after the accident.

If, then, it appears to be necessary to hold an inquest. the coroner should proceed forthwith to issue his warrant to summon a jury. Delay on his part is punishable.

All the best

Dave

[Damaso Marte]

But if it was one of them, not only was information withheld, but also prevarication was done at inquest, as per testimony.

Here is some text from the Wikipedia article "Inquests in England and Wales"

The purpose of the inquest is to answer four questions:[6][7][8]

Identity of the deceased
Place of death
Time of death
How the deceased came by his/her death

Evidence must be solely for the purpose of answering these questions and no other evidence is admitted.[7] It is not for the inquest to ascertain "how the deceased died" or "in what broad circumstances", but "how the deceased came by his death", a more limited question.[7] Moreover, it is not the purpose of the inquest to determine, or appear to determine, criminal or civil liability, to apportion guilt or attribute blame

I suppose that, technically, one of the PCs seeing somebody flee the murder scene would not fall into these categories?

[Chris]

Hello Jon. Of course, Sagar's story does not fit Mitre sq. Perhaps it refers to Coles?

Yes - I think that is probably one of the ingredients of the story:

http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.php?p=143082&postcount=26

[Chris]

This is almost certainly the sighting by MM's City PC and interestingly the suspect is not only of Jewish appearance but also 'well known' to the police (ie easily catchable).

Interesting though that would be, I think it's probably a slip for 'well dressed', which appears in another version of the story:

http://cgp100.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/SagarReports.htm

[Trevor Marriott]

Thanks Jon. I don't remember seeing that before.

This is almost certainly the sighting by MM's City PC and interestingly the suspect is not only of Jewish appearance but also 'well known' to the police (ie easily catchable).

and that's why they never arrested him because they knew who he was all make sense to me

[lynn cates]

Coles

Hello Jon. Of course, Sagar's story does not fit Mitre sq. Perhaps it refers to Coles?

Cheers.
LC