Suppose a City PC did see something near Mitre Square

[pinkmoon]

I read it over 20 years ago in Martin Howells book I do think though we have to take it with a pinch of salt seems a bit to good to be true how ever I do think if it was true police would not make it public.I wonder if that story was floating around at time of macnaughton could be part of his" private information" let's face it that description is so much like druitts

[Phil H]

pinkmoon - I think you'll find that the story has been well looked into.

You might even find some threads here on Casebook - search under Stephen White. Indeed, I think you'll find that the story is referenced in earlier posts in this thread.

Check these:

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=71&highlight=Stephen+White

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=6450&highlight=Stephen+White

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=3187

There is also a dissertation here:

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-amos.html

The story - as I recall - emerged later after White himself had died (in an obituary in the 1920s -though that's from memory and I maybe wrong) In art terms, its provenance is not good.

Also the circumstances do not seem to jive well with the circumstances surrounding Mitre Square. Though the story was at one time popular because the description of the softly spoken stranger seemed to fit MJ Druitt!!

Hope this helps.

Phil

[pinkmoon]

I remember reading a story (which has never been proven genuine) about a police man of the name of white which said police were stalking out a court and out of the court came a man who's description is spot on to druitt who stumbled than walked of .He was wearing rubber soled shoes pc white helped him up and man walked of next minute police discoverd body in court.If this story is true I don't think police would like this to be known because they would look extremely stupid.

[Phil H]

The robbery was discovered on the Monday, after the murder Phil.

Thanks for the clarification, Monty. I couldn't remember.

But my point was really might not the robbery also explain some of the men seen acting in a suspicious or surreptitious way at that time - casing the joint-maybe, standing guard, whatever.

Just a thought.

Phil

[Cogidubnus]

Hello Jon/Monty

It appears to me that there is some confusion here between the duties of a Coroner for an Inquest where cause of death is yet to be established, and the Coroner's duties in a murder Case where an accused is on trial.

You're probably right...I said at the outset that I didn't pretend to be an expert - however, all the sections quoted above lie under the heading of Inquests, and I'm now thoroughly confused as to where the line is drawn...is it Section 4(2) onwards?

All the best

Dave

[Monty]

Huge confusion Jon,

Monty

[Wickerman]

It appears to me that there is some confusion here between the duties of a Coroner for an Inquest where cause of death is yet to be established, and the Coroner's duties in a murder Case where an accused is on trial.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Cris

Hi Dave.

Read section 3, part 3. of the 1887 Coroner's Act.

The Treatise I'm reading is that of the office and duties of Coroners by Sir John Jervis, updated for the Coroners Act 1887 with forms and precedents attached. Section 3 (3) appears to be:-

3.(3.) When not less than twelve jurors are assembled they shall be sworn by or before the coroner diligently to inquire touching the death of the person on whose body the inquest is about to be held, and a true verdict to give according to the evidence.

Which is then followed by pages and pages discussing legal definitions and precedents in all sorts of circumstances- followed by:-

4.(1.) The coroner and jury shall, at the first sitting of the inquest, view the body, and the coroner shall examine on oath touching the death all persons who tender their evidence respecting the facts and all persons having knowledge of the facts whom he thinks it expedient to examine.

More pages on just how far a Coroner may go (a long way it seems) then

4.(2.) It shall be the duty of the coroner in a case of murder or manslaughter to put into writing the statement on oath of those who know the facts and circumstances of the case, or so much of such statement as is material, and any such deposition shall be signed by the witness and also by the coroner.

and

4.(3.) After viewing the body and hearing the evidence the jury shall give their verdict, and certify it by an inquisition in writing, setting forth, so far as such particulars have been proved to them, who the deceased was, and how, when, and where the deceased came by his death, and, if he came by his death by murder or manslaughter, the persons if any, whom the jury find to have been guilty of such murder or manslaughter, or of being accessories before the fact to such murder.

Cue more pages of precedent!

It would appear that in cases of murder or manslaughter Coroners had a right if not a duty to go further than merely estanlishing cause of death

All the best

Dave

[Monty]

The robbery was discovered on the Monday, after the murder Phil.

Monty

[Wickerman]

On the whole I think Sagar and Cox were probably referring to different suspects, though it's difficult to be sure.

With Sagar, there appears to be elements of the Eddowes, Kelly & Coles murder, all rolled into one. Given that this recollection first appeared so long after the murders, confused details may be expected.

[Monty]

Does King's-block in the model dwellings in Stoney Lane suggest any of the known suspects?

And where is this in relationship to Goulston St.? Never mind, just Googled and oh, my -- 3/10 of a mile and 7 minutes -- a native would know short cuts from the looks of the map . . .

thx,
curious

Goolge is wrong.

About 1 to 2 minutes brisk walk I'd say.

Monty

[Phil H]

I don't have my books or reference notes to hand I'm afraid. I believe there might be a thread on here somewhere.

Searching I found this old thread that covers (it seems) much the same ground as this one.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=6729&highlight=post+office

For interest. I'll go on searching.

[lynn cates]

robbery

Hello Phil. I was thinking that the post office robbery came later?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

similar

Hello Chris. Thanks.

Well, there are several stories very much alike. White also seems to have had a similar experience.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

Wasn't there a good deal of police activity around Aldgate/Mitre Square on the night of the double event because of a robbery close by?

Maybe I'm mistaken.

Phil