Did he have anatomical knowledge?

[Errata]

What is that you use a knife hours a day for are you a butcher, a fishmonger, a sushi chef? What size do you estimate the rippers knife was? I was surprised seeing how small the knife was in the Isis decapitation videos, looks real small! Would the ripper use a knife that size? Could the knife used in the rippings be the same size as from the dismemberments? If not what size/type of knife do you think the torso killer used?

Yikes!

I addressed the knife question here http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=6708

And it's still generally what I think. Though in the intervening years I took up carving so my knife usage today is about 1000 times more than it was then.

There is a science to cutting, and I address it in the other thread if you guys are interested. But mainly the place I think Phillips screwed up is how knives work horizontally as opposed to vertically. A person standing up who stabs another person standing up generally does so with enough force to drive the blade in about 2/5 of the way in (simplifying the physics here). So if you have a 2 inch stab wound, the blade is 5 inches long. But stabbing a person lying down drives the knife in about 4/5 of the way in. So a 2 inch stab wound lying down comes from a 2.5 inch blade.

Add to that there are no singular stab wounds with bruising ever mentioned. Bruising or indentation means the killers slammed the hilt guard against the wound. It's the surest sign that the blade was completely sheathed in the body, and simply measuring the depth of that wound gives you the blade length. But as best I can tell, there are no such wounds. But I can tell you that a 6-8 inch blade during certain aspects of these attacks would result in carving up the victim's back from the inside. In other words, exit wounds. None are mentioned.

[RockySullivan]

Sure, but where a person becomes proficient with knives and what knives they use are two separate issues.

I have extremely sharp knife skills (sorry. couldn't help it) because I use them for hours every day. But I almost never work with an edge longer than two inches. I can, and have on many occasions used ridiculously long knives to do something in a pinch. I can carve with the tip of a chef's knife if I have to. But you will know it's a knife I'm not used to by the fact that I only use the tip of the knife. And there might be some marring on the surface because I don't have as much control as I'm used to. Which I think these bodies show signs of. But one thing there apparently is not are signs that the weight of the knife used was unfamiliar.

And I think Phillips was WAY off on the knife size. I think he applied the rule of thumb used when both parties are standing and applied it to a horizontal crime. Which doesn't really work.

What is that you use a knife hours a day for are you a butcher, a fishmonger, a sushi chef? What size do you estimate the rippers knife was? I was surprised seeing how small the knife was in the Isis decapitation videos, looks real small! Would the ripper use a knife that size? Could the knife used in the rippings be the same size as from the dismemberments? If not what size/type of knife do you think the torso killer used?

[Rosella]

In your opinion what did the knife Jack use look like and what would have been the actual purpose for such a blade at the time?

Yes, Errata, as a person who uses knives a lot please give us your opinion.

I agree that a person's job wouldn't necessarily correlate to the sort of knife carried around away from work, either to harm others or for personal protection. Nevertheless, the speed at which Jack worked does suggest he followed a trade in which knives were used daily.

[lynn cates]

pointed remark

Hello Errata. Thanks.

OK, I get the point. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[gnote]

Sure, but where a person becomes proficient with knives and what knives they use are two separate issues.

I have extremely sharp knife skills (sorry. couldn't help it) because I use them for hours every day. But I almost never work with an edge longer than two inches. I can, and have on many occasions used ridiculously long knives to do something in a pinch. I can carve with the tip of a chef's knife if I have to. But you will know it's a knife I'm not used to by the fact that I only use the tip of the knife. And there might be some marring on the surface because I don't have as much control as I'm used to. Which I think these bodies show signs of. But one thing there apparently is not are signs that the weight of the knife used was unfamiliar.

And I think Phillips was WAY off on the knife size. I think he applied the rule of thumb used when both parties are standing and applied it to a horizontal crime. Which doesn't really work.

In your opinion what did the knife Jack use look like and what would have been the actual purpose for such a blade at the time?

[Errata]

Hello Rosella. That's true, but Dr. Phillips pronounced knives used in that trade too short.

Cheers.
LC

Sure, but where a person becomes proficient with knives and what knives they use are two separate issues.

I have extremely sharp knife skills (sorry. couldn't help it) because I use them for hours every day. But I almost never work with an edge longer than two inches. I can, and have on many occasions used ridiculously long knives to do something in a pinch. I can carve with the tip of a chef's knife if I have to. But you will know it's a knife I'm not used to by the fact that I only use the tip of the knife. And there might be some marring on the surface because I don't have as much control as I'm used to. Which I think these bodies show signs of. But one thing there apparently is not are signs that the weight of the knife used was unfamiliar.

And I think Phillips was WAY off on the knife size. I think he applied the rule of thumb used when both parties are standing and applied it to a horizontal crime. Which doesn't really work.

[lynn cates]

The name's Bond, Thomas Bond.

Hello Rosella. Thanks.

Presumably, Dr. Bond would have referred to "MJK." He did not see the other women.

Personally, if the knives are described as "different," it is simply grist for my mill.

Cheers.
LC

[Rosella]

Yes, Pizer is no suspect. On the other hand, Dr Bond believed JTR's knife to be about six inches long, pointed at the top, very sharp, and about an inch in width. Would a slaughterman, for instance, have had that sort of knife or use a longer stronger one?

[lynn cates]

short

Hello Rosella. That's true, but Dr. Phillips pronounced knives used in that trade too short.

Cheers.
LC

[Rosella]

Well, of course John Pizer was supposedly a boot finisher and slipper maker, who was used to working with knives.

[Errata]

On the battlefield.
Some of the fastest surgeons came out of the American Civil War, but I take this as only one example. Any war would suffice, and Britain had no shortage of foreign conflicts in the 19th century.

The only trick with a medic is that it would have to be one that had practiced in the previous 3-5 years. You lose muscle memory in a year, and after three years all habitual reactions and skill knowledge go. Within 5 years you are back to laying open your own palm, or punching yourself in the face trying to dislodge a knife from bone.

Leatherwork is a possibility.

[RockySullivan]

On the battlefield.
Some of the fastest surgeons came out of the American Civil War, but I take this as only one example. Any war would suffice, and Britain had no shortage of foreign conflicts in the 19th century.

That's a good point Wickerman I hadnt thought of it. and if you don't have time for a propery surgery... dismember dismember dismember

[GUT]

Someone with medical knowledge is the first logical deduction...but when are doctors/surgeons ever accustomed to working with speed? DRs work slow, cautious with careful precision, in good lighting, at a slow pace. The ripper was clearly used to working incredibly fast, he's all about speed. Could a doctor really work that fast?

On the battlefield.
Some of the fastest surgeons came out of the American Civil War, but I take this as only one example. Any war would suffice, and Britain had no shortage of foreign conflicts in the 19th century.

In fact some surgeons used to brag about how quickly they were able to perform certain surgeries, amputations, appendectomies and cesareans are three that I know I have read accounts of.

[Wickerman]

Someone with medical knowledge is the first logical deduction...but when are doctors/surgeons ever accustomed to working with speed?

On the battlefield.
Some of the fastest surgeons came out of the American Civil War, but I take this as only one example. Any war would suffice, and Britain had no shortage of foreign conflicts in the 19th century.

[RockySullivan]

You may be dead on with the fish salesman: "The right thigh was also found the same day in the garden of Sir Percy Shelley's Chelsea house, which was being rented out to another occupier at the time. It was very much decomposed and wrapped in some more portions of the now familiar Ulster coat as well as what appeared to be the coarse fabric pocket of an apron, similar to those used by meat or fish salesman or costermongers.
" from liz Jackson casebook page