Did he have anatomical knowledge?

[Trevor Marriott]

Only because it looks like he seems to have missed it. Also because it was a new technique, he would have not been familiar with it during his own time at medical school. The Virchow method was still only known to a relatively small number of doctors.

But again this part of your theory falls down if in fact the heart was not taken away by the killer would you not agree?

And not forgetting that someone like Thompson with the level of skill you suggest is hardly likely to use precision surgery to remove a heart and then treat the rest of the body like a butchers shop with no other medical skill being shown to be present.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Richard Patterson]

I'm intrigued, why do you assume Dr. Bond was not familiar with this new standard?

Only because it looks like he seems to have missed it. Also because it was a new technique, he would have not been familiar with it during his own time at medical school. The Virchow method was still only known to a relatively small number of doctors.

[Wickerman]

This might have been because 47-year-old Doctor Bond had not been introduced to the Virchow method..

I'm intrigued, why do you assume Dr. Bond was not familiar with this new standard?

[Richard Patterson]

Did Dr. Bond miss a newly taught medical technique?

Hi. I was wondering if Dr Bond missed a new technique in vivisection, causing him to mistakenly conclude that the murderer did not have medical expertise.
I’m asking because apart from this, my suspect Francis Thompson, who trained as a surgeon, matches Bond’s profile on the killer.
Francis Thompson was a 29-year-old, eccentric, solitary homeless vagrant. My suspect, who had recently come to a small some of money to buy himself a long dark overcoat. He also, as some people knew, because he told people, carried a dissecting scalpel concealed under this coat. Dr Bond’s progile, based on the victim’s injuries, on who the police should be seeking was this,

‘…The instrument must have been … a butcher's knife or a surgeon's knife… [the murderer would] probably be solitary and eccentric in his habits, also he is most likely to be a man without regular occupation, but with some small income or pension…all five murders no doubt were committed by the same hand…I think he must be in the habit of wearing a cloak or overcoat’

Now I’ve already read that Dr Frederick Gordon Brown, the doctor who gave evidence at the inquest for Ripper victim, Catherine Eddowes. Dr Brown replied when asked if the killer possessed great anatomical skill,

‘A good deal of knowledge as to the positions of the organs in the abdominal cavity and the way of removing them.’

Dr. Bond concluded that the Whitechapel murderer was not a medical man for what he thought were very good reasons. He said,

‘In each case the mutilation was inflicted by a person who had no scientific nor anatomical knowledge. In my opinion he does not even possess the technical knowledge of a butcher or horse slaughterer or any person accustomed to cut up dead animals.’

Dr. Bond came to these conclusions based on his observation of how the victims were taken down, also their wounds, mutilations and the removal of their organs. None of it suggested any method. Things such as the way the killer had cut out Kelly’s heart straight from the pericardium showed to him less skill than a cat meat butcher.

This might have been because 47-year-old Doctor Bond had not been introduced to the Virchow method. This was a technique of dissection from Germany. It required the removal of the heart via the pericardium. This was the then a completely new technique that was taught almost exclusively in Thompson’s student college and medical infirmary. From 1878 to 1883 FT studied to be a surgeon at Manchester’s Owens Medical College. He also trained at Manchester’s Royal Infirmary. Thompson’s lecturer of pathology at Owens Medical College in Manchester was Julius Dreschfeld (1845-1907). Dreschfeld graduated from Owens Medical College and then travelled to Wuzburg where he studied under Rudolf Virchow, learning his new autopsy methods. When Dreschfeld returned to Manchester, as well becoming Thompson’s lecturer of pathology he became assistant physician at Manchester’s Royal Infirmary, introducing Virchow’s new techniques when Thompson trained there. Dreschfeld was seen as an authority on the method and was instrumental in introducing it to England.

So that’s how a medically trained suspect might have cut out Mary Kelly’s heart and Dr Bond might have mistakenly concluded the killer was not experienced in anatomy.

Thanks.

[pinkmoon]

Which is exactly who/what Prosector was.
Have you read his(?) posts on the subject?

Thanks for the tip

[lynn cates]

going to waist

Hello Trevor. Thanks.

"would you care to expand?"

Oh, no. Waist is large enough as it is. Must cut back on the haggis. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Trevor Marriott]

Hello Batman. Thanks.

I think that Kate and her assailant were meeting there.

Moreover, I think he was aware of:

1. Watkins's beat

2. that he was going in reverse that night.

Cheers.
LC

Lynn

Now that can only point to a select few of likely suspects would you care to expand ?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00KNRE4NY

[lynn cates]

Things I know.

Hello Batman. Thanks.

I think that Kate and her assailant were meeting there.

Moreover, I think he was aware of:

1. Watkins's beat

2. that he was going in reverse that night.

Cheers.
LC

[Batman]

Hello Batman. Thanks.

The sketch seems accurate. If her attacker is at her right, his face would be TOWARD the houses and he would be facing Mitre st. So his back would be AWAY from the square.

Cheers.
LC

Yes, that's in the description.

I find it quite shocking how informative JtRs victims where on how to evade the local authorities by taking their clients to these spots. I don't think JtR lured her there on a false pretense that his house was nearby. I prefer to think that like Chapman and Kelly, she led him, unfortuntely to her fate. It seems she may have been aware that this spot would only be visited by one PC who could see there while the other couldn't at night.

I speculate from what I have read that JtR would have had his back to the PC who walked past the SW entrance. That PC shined a light in. Jack would not have been lit up but would he have noticed with his back to that entrance? If he did, it didn't deter him.

[lynn cates]

sketch

Hello Batman. Thanks.

The sketch seems accurate. If her attacker is at her right, his face would be TOWARD the houses and he would be facing Mitre st. So his back would be AWAY from the square.

Cheers.
LC

[Batman]

Hello Batman. Thanks.

"This position with Eddowes places JtRs back to the wall so he has full frontal view of Mitre Square."

Eh?

Cheers.
LC

Sorry I should have said full view of most of the NE entrance.



From what I understand, in the NW corner of Mitre Square the body was found with the left side near a drain and a wall. Her head wound have been in the direction of the other wall, NW, and her feet pointing SE while her right side is exposed to the square.

If JtR where at her feet he would be facing this corner and have to look hard left and back a bit to see down the square to see someone coming. He would have no chance of seeing someone coming from the NE entrance which is behind him to the right from this position.

The better position would have been on her left side. Then he would see all of the square but not the NE entrance much. He obviously didn't choose left because working from the left is not the position he wants to be in.

Being on her right allowed him to have his back to the SE but a view of the NE passage which would have been his escape route but also the route where the beat officers would stand a better chance of seeing him in the dark.

From my understanding, there where two beat officers near this murder and one of them (PC James Harvey I think) could have simply walked a few meters forward with his light and revealed JtR in the middle of his deeds but his beat and light didn't go that far. Yet if we estimate the times, JtR must have been there with eddowes.... but I need clarification on this.

[Wickerman]

I think the only type of person who could realistically answer the question of anatomical knowledge would be a surgeon or maybe a surgeon who actually trains people to be surgeons as he would see first hand the attempt of a novice.

Which is exactly who/what Prosector was.
Have you read his(?) posts on the subject?

[pinkmoon]

I think the only type of person who could realistically answer the question of anatomical knowledge would be a surgeon or maybe a surgeon who actually trains people to be surgeons as he would see first hand the attempt of a novice.

[lynn cates]

orientation

Hello Batman. Thanks.

"This position with Eddowes places JtRs back to the wall so he has full frontal view of Mitre Square."

Eh?

Cheers.
LC

[Scott Nelson]

In a nutshell, what occupation(s) and/or experience is needed?

He wasn't afraid to use a knife.