Did he have anatomical knowledge?

[lynn cates]

Por que?

Hello Batman.

"The interesting thing though is that the hysterectomy was done while JtR may have been at their right side, not between their legs."

Why? He may have been at the side to cut the throat, but why the extraction at the side?

Cheers.
LC

[Batman]

The organ removal stumps me the most. Who could remove them that fast , it's almost like the ripper practiced on other bodies, like the torsos but a lot of them. He knew how to cut and get virtually no blood, can attack and kill quietly and have the victim dead instantly. It really sounds like an assassin I don't get it.

A nephrectomy is done usually from the person's side. This is because the kidney's are located under the rear ribs. So the person is rarely ever lying on their back during this procedure. If you wanted to plan to smash and grab someone's kidney, you would probably find doing it while they are lying on their front is easier.

In JtR's murders his procedure are done on the front. So they kidney wasn't planned, IMO, but was done because he had enough time after performing the hysterectomy.

The interesting thing though is that the hysterectomy was done while JtR may have been at their right side, not between their legs.

What this suggests to me is the following...

JtR has anatomical experience, but not as the surgeon performing the procedure but as someone 'standing to the side' of the procedure, like a medical student or a nurse, aiding in the procedure. Therefore when JtR killed he subconsciously positioned himself as he would have done in the medical theatre, from the side, not the front.

[RockySullivan]

The organ removal stumps me the most. Who could remove them that fast , it's almost like the ripper practiced on other bodies, like the torsos but a lot of them. He knew how to cut and get virtually no blood, can attack and kill quietly and have the victim dead instantly. It really sounds like an assassin I don't get it.

[Batman]

This is a bit like Lee Harvey Oswald deniers who say he couldn't have shot JFK yet none of them, not one achieved his marksmanship scores in military exams.

Its the same with JTR. Medical knowledge deniars aren't able to perform kidney extractions and especially heart removal at the top through below the ribcage.

Anatomy in the real world isn't a lovely different coloured model with parts to choose from. Its a mess of red, foods in digestion and substances ready for expulsion. In a brightly lit room this is difficult enough. At night in the dark is quite another matter.

I say the deniars have to demonstrate that anybody could have done it by repeating it. Most would give up once a surgeon showed them what they must achieve.

JtR also did it on a clock.

[RockySullivan]

The other similarity besides the position is the cut from rectum to breastplate. So no button sharpener on the belly button

[GUT]

So I was helping out a friend today, and she has something that would really save the wear and tear on a knife if used properly, and it is of no significance to anyone caught carrying one. She is a costumer, and she works with a ton of buttons. But getting them all in line is a pain, and cutting one off is an even bigger pain, so she showed me her sharpened button hook. It's like a wee little sickle. Certainly sharp enough to cut through skin, fat, and mesenteries, but not big enough to damage the intestines. Tiny, but effective.

If I was the type of person to have a murder kit, that would totally go in my murder kit.

I have a zombie apocalypse kit, but somehow a sharpened button hook doesn't really go with a Russian throwing shovel and the original 8 minute track of Michael Jackson's "Thriller".

My mum had one of those button dehooker thingy's and it was savage, with a capital S

[Errata]

Errata you have me thoroughly convinced you are serial killer! Lol that being said I like the two knives theory. If the throat cutting would dull the blade too much to do the abdominal mutilations, two would make sense. What if the woman were strangled/knocked out, then the ripper proceeded with the eviscerations, finally afterwards he cut the throat. Would the knife be sharp enough to cut the throats after the abdominal mutilations? Is this is possible alternative scenario to the two knives theory?

So I was helping out a friend today, and she has something that would really save the wear and tear on a knife if used properly, and it is of no significance to anyone caught carrying one. She is a costumer, and she works with a ton of buttons. But getting them all in line is a pain, and cutting one off is an even bigger pain, so she showed me her sharpened button hook. It's like a wee little sickle. Certainly sharp enough to cut through skin, fat, and mesenteries, but not big enough to damage the intestines. Tiny, but effective.

If I was the type of person to have a murder kit, that would totally go in my murder kit.

I have a zombie apocalypse kit, but somehow a sharpened button hook doesn't really go with a Russian throwing shovel and the original 8 minute track of Michael Jackson's "Thriller".

[Errata]

I see. The victims are posed the same way a field dresser would pose a deer. If he was a hunter could he have learned the specifics of the removing. The human uterus from the torsos?

I don't think so. The uterus is a firm fist sized ball below a squishy fist sized ball and above an either firm or squishy elongated fist sized thing. About the same size as a kidney, spleen, any number of other things. And the human uterus is a lot lower down than the average mammalian uterus, with shorter vaginal canal. And he couldn't see in the cavity, so he would be finding it by feel. So he either knew exactly where it was, or he knew exactly how to find it without knowing exactly where it was. And I can only think of one way of doing that.

I think any similarity to a field dressing pose is that they were on their backs.

[RockySullivan]

I'm really valuing your input about the knives errata. I think the problem with the ripper case is that in all the time that's passed everyone without fail has missed the obvious. How many years went by before someone realized how suspicious Lechmere & Hutch actually are? I'm not saying either are the killer but it's obvious they needed to be looked at more closely. Same goes with the knives, while I am a novice, I have never once seen anyone mention how dull the knife would be after the near decapitations. Seems like a pretty important point. Same with torsos. All these years and all we've got is sickert an prince eddy(I know all of y'all have made some contributions to this case thru out the years, much of it ignored by the mainstream for ridiculous sensational theories I'm sure) This seems like stuff that should've been focused on at the time. Captain Hindsight i know.

[RockySullivan]

Most mammals have uteruses in roughly the same place, but they do not remotely resemble a human uterus. Most mammals have a forked uterus, with two horns resembling either an anchor or sheep horns. This structure accommodates litters. Because of the nipple rule we know that the only mammals that are not designed to have litters are primates. So it's us and monkeys, and most people haven't seen the inside of a monkey either. Anyone operating under the assumption that a human is built like a sheep is never going to find the uterus. Not just by looking. So the killer did not find the uterus based on familiarity with animal anatomy. He did it the old fashioned way.

I see. The victims are posed the same way a field dresser would pose a deer. If he was a hunter could he have learned the specifics of the removing. The human uterus from the torsos?

[Errata]

Are there any animals who have a similar enough anatomy that the ripper could learn to remove a humans kidney, uterus so quickly with no light?

Most mammals have uteruses in roughly the same place, but they do not remotely resemble a human uterus. Most mammals have a forked uterus, with two horns resembling either an anchor or sheep horns. This structure accommodates litters. Because of the nipple rule we know that the only mammals that are not designed to have litters are primates. So it's us and monkeys, and most people haven't seen the inside of a monkey either. Anyone operating under the assumption that a human is built like a sheep is never going to find the uterus. Not just by looking. So the killer did not find the uterus based on familiarity with animal anatomy. He did it the old fashioned way.

[Simon Owen]

A hunter also is the only one I can imagine being able to work that fast in the dark. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field..._%28hunting%29
Take a look at the first two pictures on the Wikipedia article for field dressing. By golly if I doesn't look exactly like the ripper murders! I mean exactly! I think the ripper was a deer hunter.


"First an incision is made around the anus so that it moves freely from the rest of the carcass. Then a cut is made from that incision to the breast plate to allow the stomach and intestines to be carefully removed. Now the anus can be removed by pulling it down or using a specialized tool called a butt-out."

I remember reading details of one description possibly eddowes and it sounded exactly like this. sliced up from rectum to breastplate.

"...Such a knowledge might be possessed by someone in the habit of cutting up animals." - Dr Frederick Gordon Brown. Brown also thought the cuts made to Eddowes's face were butchers' cuts.

[Hunter]

Lol...

[RockySullivan]

A hunter also is the only one I can imagine being able to work that fast in the dark. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field..._%28hunting%29
Take a look at the first two pictures on the Wikipedia article for field dressing. By golly if I doesn't look exactly like the ripper murders! I mean exactly! I think the ripper was a deer hunter.


"First an incision is made around the anus so that it moves freely from the rest of the carcass. Then a cut is made from that incision to the breast plate to allow the stomach and intestines to be carefully removed. Now the anus can be removed by pulling it down or using a specialized tool called a butt-out."

I remember reading details of one description possibly eddowes and it sounded exactly like this. sliced up from rectum to breastplate.

[RockySullivan]

Are there any animals who have a similar enough anatomy that the ripper could learn to remove a humans kidney, uterus so quickly with no light? That's why in was thinking hunter as they immediately after murdering an animal the hunter "dresses" which I assume means slices open the gut and pulls out the intestines? A deer seems like they could have a similar anatomy to a human. The "deerstalker" sighting for instance could point to a hunter couldn't it. What kind of knives would a hunter use and what time of person (beside prince eddy) might be a hunter in whitechapel. I don't believe the victims were random & just unluckily the ripper happened upon them. I think the ripper stalked them the way a hunter would his prey. I think the MO was similar to a hunter and maybe the ripper was an expert. I see signs of this in the killing with the stalking and the mutilations, the throat cut. It's just a theory but it seems more likely than a butcher or a doctor because a hunter has the added advantage of the skill in stalking a victim that dr. Butcher lacks.