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  • #61
    Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

    I'm not, nor ever have been, convinced it was a suicide.

    Ah, the chap Druitt again..


    So you are convinced his brother killed him.

    Druitt met his brother, confessed to him that he was the ripper, and that he couldn't help himself but continue butchering the women on the streets of Whitechapel, his brother thought how to keep the name of the family out of this mess, and chose to get rid of him.


    Great!


    And then someone killed Mackenzie.. oh no, not good, let's say it must be a copycat!



    The Baron

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

      The "probably Gay" is based on what?
      There were several girls at the boys school, servants & kitchen staff.
      I'm not, nor ever have been, convinced it was a suicide.
      Him being described as sexually insane at the time. As for it not being suicide what exactly do you base that on?
      Last edited by John Wheat; 08-13-2020, 10:15 PM.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by John Wheat View Post

        Him being described as sexually insane at the time. As for it not being suicide what exactly do you base that on?
        I thought that referred to his fondness for spanking the monkey rather than being gay.

        c.d.

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        • #64
          Oops. Just remembered the whole solitary vice thing referred to Kosminski not Druitt.

          c.d.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by c.d. View Post
            Oops. Just remembered the whole solitary vice thing referred to Kosminski not Druitt.

            c.d.
            I believe it is common knowledge that Druitt and Tumblety for that matter were likely to have been gay.
            Last edited by John Wheat; 08-13-2020, 10:34 PM.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by The Baron View Post


              Ah, the chap Druitt again..


              So you are convinced his brother killed him.

              Druitt met his brother, confessed to him that he was the ripper, and that he couldn't help himself but continue butchering the women on the streets of Whitechapel, his brother thought how to keep the name of the family out of this mess, and chose to get rid of him.


              Great!


              And then someone killed Mackenzie.. oh no, not good, let's say it must be a copycat!



              The Baron
              The main problem with McKenzie being a Ripper victim is why the long gap between her and the C5.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by John Wheat View Post

                The main problem with McKenzie being a Ripper victim is why the long gap between her and the C5.
                You've made this point before, John.

                Serial killers have been known to have cooling-off periods after bursts of activity. Some killers have gone years between murders.

                That's without taking into account factors such as incarceration or sickness.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Harry D View Post

                  You've made this point before, John.

                  Serial killers have been known to have cooling-off periods after bursts of activity. Some killers have gone years between murders.

                  That's without taking into account factors such as incarceration or sickness.
                  Hi Harry

                  My point still stands. It's just a bit too convenient to say that there was a cooling off period especially when there was such frequency with the C5.

                  Cheers John

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by John Wheat View Post

                    Hi Harry

                    My point still stands. It's just a bit too convenient to say that there was a cooling off period especially when there was such frequency with the C5.

                    Cheers John

                    What if the police was watching him John?! Do you not think this is enough to keep him out of killing for some months?!

                    And what if he was forced to spend some time in an asylum?! And when he was out again he killed Mckenzie?! Is that not possible either?!



                    The Baron

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                    • #70
                      [QUOTE=erobitha;n739537]Finally a proper good Ripper question.

                      I have a preferred suspect which is known on these boards but let’s park that for one minute and talk about motive. Why would someone do this?

                      VICTIMOLOGY
                      All canonical five victims were prostitutes. 4 of which murdered in the open of which one actually in broad daylight (Chapman) and one in her own lodgings. It's not unreasonable to assume he was specifically targeting this class of women so he must have had a reason.

                      MODUS OPERANDI
                      It appeared he strangled or suffocated them in order to silence them in the first instance. Then to make sure they were definitely dead he slit their throats. The way he slit their throats also varied, but this was pragmatic to ensure they were dead and not simply unconscious. To kill them silently as quickly as possible was his first aim. Some victims he almost severed their heads off and in other cases it was just the arteries in the neck he severed without fully cutting all the way across the neck. Then the post mortem mutilations varied. Polly Ann Nichols was disembowelled, Annie Chapman uterus and more, Catherine Eddowes much more including the kidney and then finally Mary Jane Kelly where he just went to town and the heart was believed to be missing - but she was flayed to the bone on most of her body. Dehumanisation was the goal here. The worst victim was Kelly in her own lodgings. She was also the youngest and I believe that was relevant to the murderer.

                      WEAPON
                      It is regarded the knife used was 6 inches at least. What type of knife we do not know but almost certainly not surgical in my view. Someone with surgical knowledge would have better selection of tools to use if the aim was surgical. This was quite a brutal knife picked by the killer to do multiple jobs from slitting the throat to removing a uterus or heart. It just needed to be sharp and effective.

                      ORGANISED vs DISORGANISED
                      It is assumed that as these attacks were random and as such made him more of a disorganised killer. However, the fact the murder targets were always prostitutes, the way he subdued them, how he always killed at weekends and he was able to blend in seamlessly - suggests to me enough pattern behaviour to challenge that hypothesis. I believe he may have had some acquaintance with one or two of the victims, but that's purely my theory and is unproven.

                      So from the above we can garner the killer's motive is to dehumanise the prostitute working class women of Whitechapel in the most brutal way possible on weekends. The killing itself was not the aim - that was the admin. The post mortem mutilation is what he was more interested in, hence the fascination with dehumanisation. Whitechapel was "darkest London" and whilst prostitutes could be found almost anywhere, there was believed to be over a thousand in the Whitechapel district alone. A lion hunts for wilderbeast at the waters edge where there are many. Also there was some kind of proud showmanship here. It's like he was proud of his work. The way Kelly was positioned was staged and for a reason.

                      1) A whore did him wrong somehow and this is payback. They were fair game and they disgusted him.
                      2) Alternatively this could be the work of a religious maniac who saw prostitutes as the embodiment of satan himself and felt they were doing some kind of "gods work"
                      3) Just a crazy jew who lost the plot [for Kosminski

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                      • #71
                        Did JTR contract the pox from a prostitute? Were any of his victims carriers? Did one of them give the disease to him? Was that the revenge? The facial destruction and slicing of the lower body shows a hatred for the organ that gave him the disease. No historian of the time has even approached the subject of what entailed prostitution at that time. How frequent was vaginal sex or was it primarily oral sex that the prostitutes offered? I assume vaginal sex would have been more possible in hidden areas and JTRs victims would have willingly gone off somewhere private with him.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by kwanitaka View Post
                          Did JTR contract the pox from a prostitute? Were any of his victims carriers? Did one of them give the disease to him? Was that the revenge? The facial destruction and slicing of the lower body shows a hatred for the organ that gave him the disease. No historian of the time has even approached the subject of what entailed prostitution at that time. How frequent was vaginal sex or was it primarily oral sex that the prostitutes offered? I assume vaginal sex would have been more possible in hidden areas and JTRs victims would have willingly gone off somewhere private with him.
                          At least 4 of the prostitures were beliveved to have suffered from syphillis.
                          "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
                          - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by The Baron View Post


                            What if the police was watching him John?! Do you not think this is enough to keep him out of killing for some months?!

                            And what if he was forced to spend some time in an asylum?! And when he was out again he killed Mckenzie?! Is that not possible either?!



                            The Baron
                            Hi Baron

                            I suppose its possible but I still think it's very convenient.

                            Cheers John

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by John Wheat View Post

                              It's just a bit too convenient to say that there was a cooling off period especially when there was such frequency with the C5.


                              And when Bury decided to go to the police and give himself to the hand of justice waiting in his cell for the investigations, the interviews, the medical reports, the trials, which may or may not end with him free man again, all this long procedures weren't a cool off period too if he was the Ripper?

                              You see John, your argument against Mckenzie being a ripper victim is the same argument that goes against Bury as the ripper.



                              The Baron



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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                                who? druitt didnt commit suicide?
                                If he was not the killer, then he might have.
                                If he was the killer, then no, I don't think he did.
                                Regards, Jon S.

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