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  • Motivation?

    It is easy to assume that the killer was just some sex maniac who killed women, "just for jolly", but if that is dropped out of the equation, we are left with the problem of motive. It seems that the killer wanted his victim in a state of helplessness and silence. So kill her. Okay now he attacks the lower abdomen, deep jagged slashes, in some cases removing parts of the womb. So again it is tempting to assume sex was behind it. But then we have the kidney removal. The mutilation of the face not the vagina. Was the motive the destruction of a woman then? If so, why be so public about it? Why not vanish into the countryside and prey on rural women? Or was it because they were prostitutes? That could point to a religious or revenge motive. Any thoughts?

  • #2
    Finally a proper good Ripper question.

    I have a preferred suspect which is known on these boards but let’s park that for one minute and talk about motive. Why would someone do this?

    VICTIMOLOGY
    All canonical five victims were prostitutes. 4 of which murdered in the open of which one actually in broad daylight (Chapman) and one in her own lodgings. It's not unreasonable to assume he was specifically targeting this class of women so he must have had a reason.

    MODUS OPERANDI
    It appeared he strangled or suffocated them in order to silence them in the first instance. Then to make sure they were definitely dead he slit their throats. The way he slit their throats also varied, but this was pragmatic to ensure they were dead and not simply unconscious. To kill them silently as quickly as possible was his first aim. Some victims he almost severed their heads off and in other cases it was just the arteries in the neck he severed without fully cutting all the way across the neck. Then the post mortem mutilations varied. Polly Ann Nichols was disembowelled, Annie Chapman uterus and more, Catherine Eddowes much more including the kidney and then finally Mary Jane Kelly where he just went to town and the heart was believed to be missing - but she was flayed to the bone on most of her body. Dehumanisation was the goal here. The worst victim was Kelly in her own lodgings. She was also the youngest and I believe that was relevant to the murderer.

    WEAPON
    It is regarded the knife used was 6 inches at least. What type of knife we do not know but almost certainly not surgical in my view. Someone with surgical knowledge would have better selection of tools to use if the aim was surgical. This was quite a brutal knife picked by the killer to do multiple jobs from slitting the throat to removing a uterus or heart. It just needed to be sharp and effective.

    ORGANISED vs DISORGANISED
    It is assumed that as these attacks were random and as such made him more of a disorganised killer. However, the fact the murder targets were always prostitutes, the way he subdued them, how he always killed at weekends and he was able to blend in seamlessly - suggests to me enough pattern behaviour to challenge that hypothesis. I believe he may have had some acquaintance with one or two of the victims, but that's purely my theory and is unproven.

    So from the above we can garner the killer's motive is to dehumanise the prostitute working class women of Whitechapel in the most brutal way possible on weekends. The killing itself was not the aim - that was the admin. The post mortem mutilation is what he was more interested in, hence the fascination with dehumanisation. Whitechapel was "darkest London" and whilst prostitutes could be found almost anywhere, there was believed to be over a thousand in the Whitechapel district alone. A lion hunts for wilderbeast at the waters edge where there are many. Also there was some kind of proud showmanship here. It's like he was proud of his work. The way Kelly was positioned was staged and for a reason.

    1) A whore did him wrong somehow and this is payback. They were fair game and they disgusted him.
    2) Alternatively this could be the work of a religious maniac who saw prostitutes as the embodiment of satan himself and felt they were doing some kind of "gods work"
    3) Just a crazy jew who lost the plot [for Kosminski believers]

    My bet is 1 is the most likely but we can't rule out 2. I'm sure we can rule out 3.
    Last edited by erobitha; 08-09-2020, 08:36 PM.
    "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
    - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

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    • #3
      Originally posted by miakaal4 View Post
      It is easy to assume that the killer was just some sex maniac who killed women, "just for jolly", but if that is dropped out of the equation, we are left with the problem of motive. It seems that the killer wanted his victim in a state of helplessness and silence. So kill her. Okay now he attacks the lower abdomen, deep jagged slashes, in some cases removing parts of the womb. So again it is tempting to assume sex was behind it. But then we have the kidney removal. The mutilation of the face not the vagina. Was the motive the destruction of a woman then? If so, why be so public about it? Why not vanish into the countryside and prey on rural women? Or was it because they were prostitutes? That could point to a religious or revenge motive. Any thoughts?
      The kidney is interesting because it wasn't the easiest organ to snatch. It could be that it held some religious significance to the killer (Leviticus demands kidneys as part of a sacrificial offering) or it could be that he was a cannibal who wanted to taste that particular organ (which might support From Hell's authenticity).

      Originally posted by miakaal4 View Post
      Why not vanish into the countryside and prey on rural women? Or was it because they were prostitutes? That could point to a religious or revenge motive.
      Well, there could be any number of reasons for that. He might have been accustomed to city life and had commitments that kept him in London. I also think that targeting women in small, rural areas would've been more troublesome than picking off whores in the labyrinthine slums of Whitechapel. It was possibly the perfect backdrop to get away with these murders, even if he did have a couple of close calls.

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      • #4
        imho the rippers main motivation was what his knife could do to the female body--he simply liked cutting up women.
        secondary motivation was shocking the public.

        no torture, no overt sexual abuse. all post mortem.

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        • #5
          It seems to me the killer definitely had a monkey on his back regarding the mutilations. By this I mean he had ideas of what he wanted to do before he attacked. What is really odd is in the case of the Mitre Square murder, he acts as if his work is far more important than the risk of capture. The initial kill, the facial mutilations, the organ removal, in complete darkness, in 5 minutes. At any time a policeman or worker could have stumbled into him but none the less, the unnecessary extensive mutilations were done, and colon placed precisely. This is not the work of a raving lunatic, this is someone who has planned the destruction beforehand. Seems to me that the placement of the colon could be very significant in identifying the true motivation. It is too strange to be random. Isn't it?

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          • #6
            How did the killer know the victims were prostitutes?We have suspicions because of the amount of information now available.How much information did he have,especially of Stride and Eddowes,when the aquaintance appears to be of a short duration.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by harry View Post
              How did the killer know the victims were prostitutes?We have suspicions because of the amount of information now available.How much information did he have,especially of Stride and Eddowes,when the aquaintance appears to be of a short duration.
              If they approached him, the same way as Kelly approached Hutchinson, they would give themselves away.
              Regards, Jon S.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by erobitha View Post
                Finally a proper good Ripper question.

                I have a preferred suspect which is known on these boards but let’s park that for one minute and talk about motive. Why would someone do this?

                VICTIMOLOGY
                All canonical five victims were prostitutes. 4 of which murdered in the open of which one actually in broad daylight (Chapman) and one in her own lodgings. It's not unreasonable to assume he was specifically targeting this class of women so he must have had a reason.
                I'm inclined to think he only choose prostitutes because they were easy prey.
                Any regular female would not approach him, they would not consent to be in a strangers company any length of time, they would not take him to a spot almost guaranteed to offer 5-10 minutes of privacy.
                The prostitute will do all three, so they become the path of least resistance.

                I agree with all the other points you raise, except the final three reason's that you list.


                1) A whore did him wrong somehow and this is payback. They were fair game and they disgusted him.
                2) Alternatively this could be the work of a religious maniac who saw prostitutes as the embodiment of satan himself and felt they were doing some kind of "gods work"
                3) Just a crazy jew who lost the plot [for Kosminski believers]

                My bet is 1 is the most likely but we can't rule out 2. I'm sure we can rule out 3.
                I just don't like 2), besides its too dramatic, and been overplayed in books & movies.
                3) is out in my view because, he simply wasn't a Jew.
                The character who is my Person of Interest had something wrong with his eyes, according to witnesses. One described 'no eyelashes', there are several reason's for this malady, but one cause is syphilis, but who knows.....

                Just to add a footnote.
                I suspect he had some ability with the garotte, as this, I believe, is what he used. The reason he ran the knife around the neck, was not mere mutilation, but to destroy the mark left by the cord.


                Regards, Jon S.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by harry View Post
                  How did the killer know the victims were prostitutes?We have suspicions because of the amount of information now available.How much information did he have,especially of Stride and Eddowes,when the aquaintance appears to be of a short duration.
                  My guess is he was propositioned before he acted. Most eye witness reports claim a man was seen talking to most of the victims (aside from Polly) just prior to their murders. That’s how he knew. He let all the victims pick their preferred spot to transact - this would have given them a false sense of security but also hugely high risk from his perspective. Only Kelly offered him full privacy and he exploited that to the fullest.
                  "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
                  - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                    3) is out in my view because, he simply wasn't a Jew.
                    Because of the GSG?

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                    • #11
                      Supposing the killer was the one who made the approach.There were other inducements besides sex that could be offered.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Harry D View Post

                        Because of the GSG?
                        No, actually.
                        I dismiss the GSG, nothing to do with the murders.
                        I do recall your suspect is a Jew whereas the man I am talking about was an Englishman, at least according to John Best.
                        Regards, Jon S.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                          No, actually.
                          I dismiss the GSG, nothing to do with the murders.
                          I do recall your suspect is a Jew whereas the man I am talking about was an Englishman, at least according to John Best.
                          I've flirted with a few suspects, and I think there's an argument to be made for a Jewish one.
                          Nowadays, I don't really have a horse in the race.
                          If you put a gun to my head, I'd plump for William Bury, simply for the law of averages.
                          However, I think the Ripper/Thames Torso link is an interesting theory that demands further research.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by harry View Post
                            How did the killer know the victims were prostitutes?We have suspicions because of the amount of information now available.How much information did he have,especially of Stride and Eddowes,when the aquaintance appears to be of a short duration.
                            If prostitutes' livelihood depended on them being noticed by men, I am sure they figured out a way to make their availability known.

                            c.d.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                              imho the rippers main motivation was what his knife could do to the female body--he simply liked cutting up women.
                              secondary motivation was shocking the public.

                              no torture, no overt sexual abuse. all post mortem.


                              That is not an answer to the real motive Abby.

                              Tell me why the female body

                              Why cutting up women

                              Don't buy from those who want to push their fantasies and agendas by any cost. They want you to believe these silly simplifications while they are behind the words focusing on one single suspect.



                              The Baron

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